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arXiv:quant-ph/9710046

Can a falling tree make a noise in two forests at the same time?

Aephraim M. Steinberg

Published Oct 21, 1997• 5 citations
arXivHTMLPDF

Abstract

It is a commonplace to claim that quantum mechanics supports the old idea that a tree falling in a forest makes no sound unless there is a listener present. In fact, this conclusion is far from obvious. Furthermore, if a tunnelling particle is observed in the barrier region, it collapses to a state in which it is no longer tunnelling. Does this imply that while tunnelling, the particle can not have any physical effects? I argue that this is not the case, and moreover, speculate that it may be possible for a particle to have effects on two spacelike separate apparatuses simultaneously. I discuss the measurable consequences of such a feat, and speculate about possible statistical tests which could distinguish this view of quantum mechanics from a ``corpuscular'' one. Brief remarks are made about an experiment underway at Toronto to investigate these issues.

DOI
10.48550/arxiv.quant-ph/9710046

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Time-symmetric quantum mechanics questioned and defended

Yakir Aharonov, Sandu Popescu, Jeff Tollaksen

Aharonov, Popescu, and Tollaksen reply: We thank the letter writers for their interest and for the opportunity to better clarify our ideas.Michael Nauenberg and Art Hobson make essentially the same point—namely, that our ideas are completely wrong. To put their criticism in the right context, we point out that the outcome of our research program is twofold. First, we have discovered an entirely new class of quantum effects; second, we present a new way of thinking about quantum mechanics.The fact that quantum mechanics predicts the effects we discovered is just that, a fact. The effects are computed using standard quantum mechanics, without additions or modifications. As such, their prediction by quantum mechanics is beyond doubt (unless one suspects algebraic mistakes). Furthermore, many of our effects have been verified experimentally; in particular, different versions of our amplification method have been used as novel technological tools. 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As Richard Feynman says in his book The Character of Physical Law (Modern Library, 1994), suppose we have “two theories” that “have all the consequences . . . exactly the same. . . . How are we going to decide which one is right? There is no way by science, because they both agree with the experiment to the same extent.” So the criticism is baseless.At the same time, if our approach is completely equivalent to the standard one, why bother? Again Feynman gives the best answer: “For psychological reasons . . . , these two things may be far from equivalent, because one gives a man different ideas from the other. . . . 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Physics Today•May 1, 2011•7 citations

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•Jun 21, 2026•0 citations
It is a commonplace to claim that quantum mechanics supports the old idea that a tree falling in a forest makes no sound unless there is a listener present. In fact, this conclusion is far from obvious. Furthermore, if a tunnelling particle is observed in the barrier region, it collapses to a state in which it is no longer tunnelling. Does this imply that while tunnelling, the particle can not have any physical effects? I argue that this is not the case, and moreover, speculate that it may be possible for a particle to have effects on two spacelike separate apparatuses simultaneously. I discuss the measurable consequences of such a feat, and speculate about possible statistical tests which could distinguish this view of quantum mechanics from a ``corpuscular'' one. Brief remarks are made about an experiment underway at Toronto to investigate these issues.
We argue that quantum nonlocality of entangled states is not an actual phenomenon. It appears in quantum mechanics as a consequence of the inconsistency of its superposition principle with the corpuscular properties of a quantum particle. In the existing form, this principle does not distinguish between macroscopically distinct states of a particle and their superpositions: it implies introducing observables for a particle, even if it is in an entangled state. However, a particle cannot take part simultaneously in two or more alternative macroscopically distinct sub-processes. Thus, calculating the expectation values of the one-particle's observables, for entangled states, is physically meaningless: Born's formula is not applicable to such states. The same concerns the entangled states of compound quantum systems. In the {\it existing} quantum mechanics, introducing Bell's inequalities is fully legal. However, these inequalities imply averaging over an entangled state, and, hence, they have no basis for their clear physical interpretation. Experiments to confirm the violation of Bell's inequalities do not prove the existence of nonlocality in microcosm. They confirm only that correlations introduced in the existing theory of entangled states have no physical sense, for they contradict special relativity.
Abstract. Quantum noise with exchange and tunnelling is studied within time-dependent wave packets. A novel expression for the quantum noise of two identical particles injected simultaneously from opposite sides of a tunnelling barrier is presented. Such quantum noise expression provides a physical (non-spurious) explanation for the experimental detection of two electrons at the same side under static potentials. Numerical simulations of the two-particle scattering probabilities in a double barrier potential with an oscillatory well are performed. The dependence of the quantum noise on the electron energy and oscillatory frequency is analysed. The peculiar behaviour of the dependence of the quantum noise on such parameters is proposed as a test about the soundness of this novel quantum noise expression, for either static or oscillatory potentials.
Aharonov, Popescu, and Tollaksen reply: We thank the letter writers for their interest and for the opportunity to better clarify our ideas.Michael Nauenberg and Art Hobson make essentially the same point—namely, that our ideas are completely wrong. To put their criticism in the right context, we point out that the outcome of our research program is twofold. First, we have discovered an entirely new class of quantum effects; second, we present a new way of thinking about quantum mechanics.The fact that quantum mechanics predicts the effects we discovered is just that, a fact. The effects are computed using standard quantum mechanics, without additions or modifications. As such, their prediction by quantum mechanics is beyond doubt (unless one suspects algebraic mistakes). Furthermore, many of our effects have been verified experimentally; in particular, different versions of our amplification method have been used as novel technological tools. Both Nauenberg and Hobson completely ignore our effects. But one should not ignore them. They are novel and they are strange. Even more, they don’t appear in isolation, but they form a well-structured pattern. Surely there is a lesson here that quantum mechanics wants to teach us; one ignores it at one’s peril.On the other hand, our way of looking at quantum mechanics is certainly unconventional; it introduces new concepts, and it approaches old concepts in a new way. That is essentially what the two letter writers point out, Hobson most emphatically when he writes that our article “is riddled with errors.” We are criticized for thinking in a different way and for asking new questions. But our way of thinking leads to the same predictions as the conventional way, so as far as experiments are concerned they are completely equivalent. As Richard Feynman says in his book The Character of Physical Law (Modern Library, 1994), suppose we have “two theories” that “have all the consequences . . . exactly the same. . . . How are we going to decide which one is right? There is no way by science, because they both agree with the experiment to the same extent.” So the criticism is baseless.At the same time, if our approach is completely equivalent to the standard one, why bother? Again Feynman gives the best answer: “For psychological reasons . . . , these two things may be far from equivalent, because one gives a man different ideas from the other. . . . There will be something, for instance, in theory A that talks about something, . . . but to find out what the corresponding thing is . . . in [theory] B may be very complicated—it may not be a very simple idea at all.” As a consequence, a new way of thinking allows one to ask new questions that, although they could be asked in the old theory as well, would have been very difficult to even envisage. That is precisely what we did. First, we raised the issue of the physics in pre- and postselected ensembles. And to reply to Hobson, no, there is nothing “erroneous” in the process of postselection. Postselection is a question about results of experiments, and every question about the results of actual measurements is legitimate. Subsequently, we discovered the concept of weak measurements, which in turn led us to discover the various effects we presented. Since the power of any new approach is given by its ability to predict new effects, one should conclude that ours is strong indeed.Furthermore, as many physicists agree, an intuitive understanding of quantum mechanics is still missing. That is why quantum physicists are surprised over and over again by the discovery of strange and unexpected fundamental effects. We hope that our new way of thinking is a step toward the long-sought intuition. Even more important, the new way of thinking may give us new ideas about what to change, if experiments ever turn out to contradict quantum mechanics and therefore require its modification. In particular, since we tinker with the idea of time— one of the most important concepts in physics—starting the change from there may be a very potent method.Shaul Mukamel refers to our experiment in which the component along some given axis of a spin-1⁄2 particle is found, by a weak measurement, to have the value √2‾/2 which is √2‾ times larger than the largest eigenvalue. He suggests an alternative explanation based on a classical vector model of spin. According to his explanation, values up to √3‾/2 should be possible. However, we presented the experiment showing √2‾/2 only because it was mathematically simple; by choosing a different postselection, we could have obtained, as results of weak measurements, values as large as we wanted. Hence the above simple classical-vector view doesn’t work.Robert Griffiths points out that there are two other time-symmetric formulations of quantum mechanics besides ours—“consistent histories” and “decoherent histories.” In particular, Griffiths is right when he emphasizes a major difference in spirit between our theory and consistent histories. The main goal of consistent histories is to find an explanation for the (apparent?) collapse of the wavefunction during a quantum measurement; although that solution is hotly disputed, as are all other solutions to the collapse problem, it is certainly a very ingenious one. However, an answer to the collapse problem is not our primary interest (though we are starting to see glimmers of an alternative answer to it using our approach).The letter by Griffiths, however, runs the risk of being misread as implying that solving the collapse problem will by itself clarify most or all of the counterintuitive aspects of quantum mechanics. That conclusion would be wrong. Quantum mechanics is strange and unusual and defies intuition in many ways; solving the collapse problem is by no means its only interesting fundamental issue. Nor can the solution of that one problem lead to a complete understanding of quantum phenomena. That particles tunnel in the first place is surprising by itself; even more so is the fact that, as we showed, perfectly good measuring devices, working with arbitrarily high precision, indicate consistently that the tunneling particles have negative kinetic energy. Equally surprising is that we can arrange a situation in which perfectly good measurements, made with as high a precision as we want, indicate that spin-1⁄2 particles have arbitrarily large spin. And these are only two examples. As far as we are aware, none of the many proposed solutions to the collapse problem make these effects seem less surprising, let alone predict them.© 2011 American Institute of Physics.
Could we hear the pop of a wave-function collapse, and if so, what would it sound like? There exist reconstructions or modifications of quantum mechanics (collapse models) where this archetypal signature of randomness exists and can in principle be witnessed. But, perhaps surprisingly, the resulting sound is disappointingly banal, indistinguishable from any other click. The problem of finding the right description of the world between two completely different classes of models -- where wave functions jump and where they do not -- is empirically undecidable. Behind this seemingly trivial observation lie deep lessons about the rigidity of quantum mechanics, the difficulty to blame unpredictability on intrinsic randomness, and more generally the physical limitations to our knowledge of reality.
Gibb’s paradox seems to arise when one considers an ideal gas of N particles, energy E, temperature T in a box of volume V and compares its entropy to two subsystems created by inserting a partition into the middle of the container without doing work. Each subsystem has N/2 particles, occupies V/2 and has E/2 and T. The issue is that one wishes to have 2 S subsystem = S full system, i.e. to have entropy be extensive. To do so, a function of N is inserted into the entropy formula and it is argued that this has to do with identical particles and ultimately with quantum mechanics. We argue that there seems to be a problem with this picture, namely the assignment of N/2 particles to each subsystem as this involves a measurement and hence changes entropy. To simplify matters, we consider a full system of 2 particles. Boltzmann’s notion of entropy is - k ln( number of states). Here the issue primarily seems to be with volume states, i.e. a particle can be in any tiny volume cell with equal probability. In the full V case, each of the two particles can be in any volume cell in V, but the same is true if one inserts a partition separating V into two V/2 cells. One cannot possibly know if one particle is in each cell unless one makes a measurement before inserting the partition and making a measurement changes entropy. When writing the number of states, these are probabilistic scenarios. It is possible that 2 particles are on one side of the partition and 0 on the other or 1 on each. The number of possible states for the partitioned system is the same as for the full volume. As a result, there is no paradox. There is only a paradox if one assumes that there is 1 particle on each side which is an assumption which cannot be made without making a measurement.