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arXiv:quant-ph/0202140 · Journal of Physics A Mathematical and General

Comment on Time-like flows of energy momentum and particle trajectories for the Klein Gordon equation

Roderich Tumulka

Published Sep 5, 2002• 2 citations
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Abstract

Horton et al ( 2000 J. Phys. A: Math. Gen. 33 7337 ) have proposed Bohm-type particle trajectories accompanying a Klein–Gordon wavefunction ψ on Minkowski space. From two vector fields on space–time, W + and W − , defined in terms of ψ, they intend to construct a time-like vector field W , the integral curves of which are the possible trajectories, by the following rule: at every space–time point, take either W = W + or W = W − depending on which is time-like. This procedure, however, is ill-defined as soon as both are time-like, or both space-like. Indeed, they cannot both be time-like, but they can well both be space-like, contrary to the central claim of Horton et al . We point out the gap in their proof, we provide a counter example, and we argue that, even for a rather arbitrary wavefunction, the points where both W + and W − are space-like can form a set of positive measure.

DOI
10.1088/0305-4470/35/37/401

Related papers

Time-like flows of energy-momentum and particle trajectories for the Klein-Gordon equation

Horton, G, Christopher Dewdney, Nesteruk, A

The Klein-Gordon equation is interpreted in the de Broglie-Bohm manner as a single-particle relativistic quantum mechanical equation that defines unique time-like particle trajectories. The particle trajectories are determined by the conserved flow of the intrinsic energy density which can be derived from the specification of the Klein-Gordon energy-momentum tensor in an Einstein-Riemann space. The approach is illustrated by application to the simple single-particle phenomena associated with square potentials.

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Reply to Comment on Timelike flows of energy momentum and particle trajectories for the Klein Gordon equation

George Horton, Christopher Dewdney

We demonstrate that a straightforward limiting process can be used to continue trajectories in spacetime through exceptional regions in the velocity field (identified by Tumulka ( 2000 J. Phys. A: Math. Gen. 35 7691 )) using the formalism we previously proposed (Horton G, Dewdney C and Nesteruk A 2000 J. Phys. A: Math. Gen. 33 7337 ).

Journal of Physics A Mathematical and General•Sep 5, 2002•3 citations

Time-like flows of energy momentum and particle trajectories for the Klein-Gordon equation

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1 Comment on ’Another form of the Klein-Gordon equation’

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It is shown that the alternative Klein-Gordon equation with positive definite probability density proposed in a letter by M.D. Kostin does not meet the requirements of relativistic (quantum) field theory and therefore does not allow for a meaningful physical interpretation. PACS code: 11.10.-z Keywords: Klein-Gordon equation, relativistic field theory. 2 The alternative formulation of the Klein-Gordon equation [1, 2] proposed by M.D. Kostin reads [3] i¯h ∂φ ∂t = +mc2φ + c ( ˆ⃗p ⃗ ψ) (1) i¯h ∂ ⃗ ψ ∂t = −mc2 ⃗ ψ + c ˆ ⃗pφ, (2) where φ(⃗r,t) and ⃗ ψ(⃗r,t) are ’scalar ’ and ’vector ’ probability amplitudes, respectively, and ˆ ⃗p = −i¯h ⃗ ∇. Defining the probability density P = φ ∗ φ + ( ⃗ ψ ∗ ⃗ ψ) (3) and the probability current density one readily derives the probability conservation equation ⃗S = c(φ ∗ ⃗ ψ + φ ⃗ ψ

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de Broglie's pilot wave theory for the Klein-Gordon equation

Horton, G, Christopher Dewdney

We illustrate, using a simple model, that in the usual formulation the time-component of the Klein-Gordon current is not generally positive definite even if one restricts allowed solutions to those with positive frequencies. Since in de Broglie's theory of particle trajectories the particle follows the current this leads to difficulties of interpretation, with the appearance of trajectories which are closed loops in space-time and velocities not limited from above. We show that at least this pathology can be avoided if one uses a covariant extension of the canonical formulation of relativistic point particle dynamics proposed by Gitman and Tyutin.

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Lagrangian/Action Formalism As a Flow Scheme and Spin

Francesco R. Ruggeri

Date on paper should be 2022 not 2021. In a previous note, we argued that for a free particle there exists a function A(x,t) such that d/dx (partial) A(x,t) = p ((1a)) and d/dt (partial) A(x,t) = -E ((1b)). In particular, we used p=E(v) v for the relativistic case and p=mov. We showed that A(x,t) is the classical action for a free particle Integral dt L = T L with v=x/t before the derivatives are taken. After, x/t is set to v. As a result, there is a nonrelativistic A(x,t)= T .5mvv and a relativistic one A= -mo sqrt(1-vv) (c=1). We argued that ((1a)) and ((1b)) are in the form of flow equations. Energy E flows through space out of a dx region (i.e there is an energy flux Ev) so if x is held constant, the change in time is -E. We also noted that one may obtain both the Schrodinger and Klein-Gordon equations from ((1a)) and ((1b)) (see reference in (1)). As a result, A(x,t) is linked to both the nonrelativistic and relativistic free particle actions, yields free particle quantum mechanical equations and may also be used to obtain the form of special relativity (as discussed in the reference in (1)). In this note, we wish to consider spin which is not present in ((1a)) and ((1b)). For both relativistic and nonrelativistic classical dynamics which are linked to A(x,t) one deals with numbers (scalars) and so no notion of spin arises. In obtaining both the relativistic Klein-Gordon equation and nonrelativistic Schrodinger equation from ((1a)) and ((1b)), one creates an eigenvalue equation i.e. id/dt exp(i Action) = E exp(iAction) ((2a)) and -id/dx exp(i Action) = p exp(i Action) ((2b)) which only hold for the free particle. One may then use E and p in expressions EE = pp + momo (where p=Ev= dAction/dx partial) and E = pp/2m + V(x) where p=mov=dAction/dx (partial). For the free particle, one has ((2a)) and ((2b)) without establishing the Klein-Gordon equation. Given that p=Ev is a vector, one may try to write ((2b)) as a vector, but given that one has operators acting on exp(i Action) one does not use a basis vector ei (ei dot ei=1), but rather a “basis” operator or a spin matrix. Thus, we argue that spin emerges in this way without having to linearize the Klein-Gordon equation. Interestingly, this approach only holds for fermions. For the photon, which is a boson, a Dirac-like equation may be obtained directly from a d/dt (partial) EL EL + BB + b grad dot (El x B) = 0 as shown in (2) (with a,b being constants). This again follows from a flow scheme.

•Jan 1, 2022•0 citations
Horton et al ( 2000 J. Phys. A: Math. Gen. 33 7337 ) have proposed Bohm-type particle trajectories accompanying a Klein–Gordon wavefunction ψ on Minkowski space. From two vector fields on space–time, W + and W − , defined in terms of ψ, they intend to construct a time-like vector field W , the integral curves of which are the possible trajectories, by the following rule: at every space–time point, take either W = W + or W = W − depending on which is time-like. This procedure, however, is ill-defined as soon as both are time-like, or both space-like. Indeed, they cannot both be time-like, but they can well both be space-like, contrary to the central claim of Horton et al . We point out the gap in their proof, we provide a counter example, and we argue that, even for a rather arbitrary wavefunction, the points where both W + and W − are space-like can form a set of positive measure.
The Klein-Gordon equation is interpreted in the de Broglie-Bohm manner as a single-particle relativistic quantum mechanical equation that defines unique time-like particle trajectories. The particle trajectories are determined by the conserved flow of the intrinsic energy density which can be derived from the specification of the Klein-Gordon energy-momentum tensor in an Einstein-Riemann space. The approach is illustrated by application to the simple single-particle phenomena associated with square potentials.
The Klein-Gordon equation is interpreted in the de Broglie-Bohm manner as a single-particle relativistic quantum mechanical equation that defines unique time-like particle trajectories. The particle trajectories are determined by the conserved flow of the intrinsic energy density, which can be derived from the specification of the Klein-Gordon energy-momentum tensor in an Einstein-Riemann space. The approach is illustrated by application to the simple single-particle phenomena associated with square potentials.
It is shown that the alternative Klein-Gordon equation with positive definite probability density proposed in a letter by M.D. Kostin does not meet the requirements of relativistic (quantum) field theory and therefore does not allow for a meaningful physical interpretation. PACS code: 11.10.-z Keywords: Klein-Gordon equation, relativistic field theory. 2 The alternative formulation of the Klein-Gordon equation [1, 2] proposed by M.D. Kostin reads [3] i¯h ∂φ ∂t = +mc2φ + c ( ˆ⃗p ⃗ ψ) (1) i¯h ∂ ⃗ ψ ∂t = −mc2 ⃗ ψ + c ˆ ⃗pφ, (2) where φ(⃗r,t) and ⃗ ψ(⃗r,t) are ’scalar ’ and ’vector ’ probability amplitudes, respectively, and ˆ ⃗p = −i¯h ⃗ ∇. Defining the probability density P = φ ∗ φ + ( ⃗ ψ ∗ ⃗ ψ) (3) and the probability current density one readily derives the probability conservation equation ⃗S = c(φ ∗ ⃗ ψ + φ ⃗ ψ
We illustrate, using a simple model, that in the usual formulation the time-component of the Klein-Gordon current is not generally positive definite even if one restricts allowed solutions to those with positive frequencies. Since in de Broglie's theory of particle trajectories the particle follows the current this leads to difficulties of interpretation, with the appearance of trajectories which are closed loops in space-time and velocities not limited from above. We show that at least this pathology can be avoided if one uses a covariant extension of the canonical formulation of relativistic point particle dynamics proposed by Gitman and Tyutin.
Date on paper should be 2022 not 2021. In a previous note, we argued that for a free particle there exists a function A(x,t) such that d/dx (partial) A(x,t) = p ((1a)) and d/dt (partial) A(x,t) = -E ((1b)). In particular, we used p=E(v) v for the relativistic case and p=mov. We showed that A(x,t) is the classical action for a free particle Integral dt L = T L with v=x/t before the derivatives are taken. After, x/t is set to v. As a result, there is a nonrelativistic A(x,t)= T .5mvv and a relativistic one A= -mo sqrt(1-vv) (c=1). We argued that ((1a)) and ((1b)) are in the form of flow equations. Energy E flows through space out of a dx region (i.e there is an energy flux Ev) so if x is held constant, the change in time is -E. We also noted that one may obtain both the Schrodinger and Klein-Gordon equations from ((1a)) and ((1b)) (see reference in (1)). As a result, A(x,t) is linked to both the nonrelativistic and relativistic free particle actions, yields free particle quantum mechanical equations and may also be used to obtain the form of special relativity (as discussed in the reference in (1)). In this note, we wish to consider spin which is not present in ((1a)) and ((1b)). For both relativistic and nonrelativistic classical dynamics which are linked to A(x,t) one deals with numbers (scalars) and so no notion of spin arises. In obtaining both the relativistic Klein-Gordon equation and nonrelativistic Schrodinger equation from ((1a)) and ((1b)), one creates an eigenvalue equation i.e. id/dt exp(i Action) = E exp(iAction) ((2a)) and -id/dx exp(i Action) = p exp(i Action) ((2b)) which only hold for the free particle. One may then use E and p in expressions EE = pp + momo (where p=Ev= dAction/dx partial) and E = pp/2m + V(x) where p=mov=dAction/dx (partial). For the free particle, one has ((2a)) and ((2b)) without establishing the Klein-Gordon equation. Given that p=Ev is a vector, one may try to write ((2b)) as a vector, but given that one has operators acting on exp(i Action) one does not use a basis vector ei (ei dot ei=1), but rather a “basis” operator or a spin matrix. Thus, we argue that spin emerges in this way without having to linearize the Klein-Gordon equation. Interestingly, this approach only holds for fermions. For the photon, which is a boson, a Dirac-like equation may be obtained directly from a d/dt (partial) EL EL + BB + b grad dot (El x B) = 0 as shown in (2) (with a,b being constants). This again follows from a flow scheme.