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Annales de la fondation Louis de Broglie/Annales de la Fondation Louis de Broglie

Réflexions sur l'espace et le temps, en physique classique et quantique

Jean Reignier

Published Jan 1, 2004• 0 citations
OpenAlex

Abstract

Space and Time are essential ways by which humans think about their environment. The mathematical parameters associated with these concepts appear nearly in the same way in the formulation of both the classical and the quantum theories, but cer tainly not any more at the level of our intuitive understanding of their results. This paper aims to explain why it can be so, starting from an analysis of the way some basic principles are introduced in these theories. These principles are: localisation in space, isolation of a system, state of an isolated system, and causality. The problem of quantum non-locality is analysed again. It is shown that localising a microscopic entity can depend on the kind of localising experiment one performs. I give an example of an entity which will be considered as localised or alternatively as non-localised, depending on the localising experiment. I also discuss the ideas of time and of duration in quantum physics. I show that if duration can be properly defined for a statistical set of particles, it is not so for the individuals.

Related papers

Quantum Information and Locality

Dennis Dieks

The surprising aspects of quantum information are due to two distinctly non-classical features of the quantum world: first, different quantum states need not be orthogonal and, second, quantum states may be entangled. Non-orthogonality leads to the blurring of classical distinctions. On the other hand, entanglement leads via non-locality to teleportation and other ``entanglement-assisted'' forms of communication that go beyond what is classically possible. In this article we attempt to understand these new possibilities via an analysis of the significance of entanglement for the basic physical concepts of a ``particle'' and a ``localized physical system''. Classical particles can be individuated on the basis of qualitative differences in their sets of properties. But in entangled states the ``particle labels'' of the quantum formalism usually do not pick out such sets of individuating particle properties. It is sometimes nevertheless possible to think in terms of individual particles, which may be localized; but we argue that in general the structure of quantum mechanics is at odds with such a particle interpretation. This finally leads us to the conclusion that quantum mechanics is best seen as not belonging to the category of space-time theories, in which physical quantities are functions on space-time points. The resulting picture of the quantum world is relevant for our understanding of the way in which quantum theory is non-local, and it sheds light on the novel aspects of quantum information.

Cambridge University Press eBooks•Apr 24, 2017•5 citations

La co-construction de l’espace et du temps : une voie pour unifier la physique classique et la physique quantique ? Rapport d’étape

Bernard Guy

La physique quantique a sa part d'étrangeté par rapport à la physique classique. La quantification, l'indéterminisme, la superposition d'états, l'intrication, ne sont pas réputés avoir d'équivalents classiques. Nous apportons ici des éléments modifiant ces affirmations, et permettant d'entrevoir un point de vue unifié sur la physique quantique et la physique classique. Nous nous plaçons pour cela dans un cadre élargi quant à l'appréhension de l'espace et du temps. Les grandes lignes de la physique quantique sont généralement écrites dans un cadre d'espace-temps établi, comme l'est la physique classique. Dans nos travaux, dès le stade de la physique classique, les concepts eux-mêmes d'espace et de temps sont questionnés et construits en opposition l'un à l'autre, selon une analyse prolongeant la théorie de la relativité. Cette construction relève d'une épistémologie relationnelle : les objets de pensée ne sont pas saisis indépendamment les uns des autres et des conditions de leur observation dans l'espace et le temps. Nous devons nous poser la question de l'espace et du temps aussi du côté de la physique quantique. Un angle d'attaque est celui des relations d'indétermination d'Heisenberg, de rôle pivot dans sa construction : selon une épistémologie relationnelle elles révèlent tout autant une indétermination de l'espace et du temps. Des relations de facture semblable peuvent être dérivées du côté classique (nous les nommons relations d'a-certitude), où la transformation de Lorentz est pleinement impliquée. Sur la base des propositions précédentes, l'interprétation de la physique quantique doit être reprise. L'abandon du déterminisme, le hasard fondamental, ne sont pas l'apanage de la théorie quantique, mais propres à toute théorie physique pour laquelle les variables d'espace et de temps sont mal déterminées. La non-localité et la non-temporalité sont les autres noms de cette indétermination. La discrétisation, ou quantification, d'une grandeur peut se comprendre de façon relationnelle comme la faible probabilité, ou le faible étalement spatio-temporel, des valeurs sautées par rapport à l'étendue des valeurs observées. Une meilleure symétrie entre les variables d'espace et celles fondant le temps permet en théorie quantique de mettre ce dernier au même niveau que l'espace (formulation d'un opérateur temps et des relations connexes). Divers caractères des théories classique et quantique sont examinés (relations entre physique quantique et relativité générale ; possible quantification de l'espace et du temps dans un cadre classique). Il ne nous apparaît pas qu'une frontière infranchissable doive séparer ce que l'on dénomme classique et ce que l'on dénomme quantique en physique. Envisager ces théories en associant étroitement leur fonctionnement à la co-construction de l'espace et du temps les met sur le même plan. Le texte offre un cadre préliminaire et qualitatif comme base de futures recherches quantitatives.

•Dec 24, 2025•0 citations

The Macroscopic Nature of Space-Time

E. J. Zimmerman

Current interpretations of quantum mechanics suggest that the classical concepts of space and time are not applicable to microscopic systems. Salecker and Wigner have recently proved that these concepts have no operational meaning for microsystems. Therefore, space-time descriptions may be valid only for macroscopic systems. It is here suggested that space and time themselves arise from, but do not have analogs in, the properties of microscopic particles, in the same way that thermodynamic properties arise as a result of interactions among the many actually existing particles of the universe. Neither the particles nor the interactions need to be described in spatial-temporal terms. This macroscopic interpretation of space-time seems compatible with the known properties of the physical world, suggests a more direct interpretation of the statistical nature of microscopic events, and offers a new approach to some physical problems.

American Journal of Physics•Feb 1, 1962•24 citations

Sur une "crise de l'intuition" dans la théorie de la relativité et de la mécanique quantique et la discussion cassirérienne sur la physique moderne

Stamatescu, Ion-Olimpiu

Dans la physique moderne, l'intuition classique a priori et les concepts theoriques de l'espace-temps representent des conditions d'objectivation contradictoires. Les arguments presentes ci-dessous suggerent qu'une reconstruction des concepts theoriques non-classiques a partir d'une intuition classique serait artificielle et ne resoudrait pas cette contradiction. Cela signifie ou bien que l'intuition perd son caractere immuable et devient historique, ou bien que le processus d'objectivation n'est pas base sur des conditions absolues mais se sert de divers instruments en relativisant ceux-ci simultanement. L'analyse essaie de suivre la position d'E. Cassirer sur la question d'une crise de l'intuition et les conclusions qui s'ensuivent

•Jan 1, 1997•0 citations

Time-symmetric quantum mechanics questioned and defended

Yakir Aharonov, Sandu Popescu, Jeff Tollaksen

Aharonov, Popescu, and Tollaksen reply: We thank the letter writers for their interest and for the opportunity to better clarify our ideas.Michael Nauenberg and Art Hobson make essentially the same point—namely, that our ideas are completely wrong. To put their criticism in the right context, we point out that the outcome of our research program is twofold. First, we have discovered an entirely new class of quantum effects; second, we present a new way of thinking about quantum mechanics.The fact that quantum mechanics predicts the effects we discovered is just that, a fact. The effects are computed using standard quantum mechanics, without additions or modifications. As such, their prediction by quantum mechanics is beyond doubt (unless one suspects algebraic mistakes). Furthermore, many of our effects have been verified experimentally; in particular, different versions of our amplification method have been used as novel technological tools. Both Nauenberg and Hobson completely ignore our effects. But one should not ignore them. They are novel and they are strange. Even more, they don’t appear in isolation, but they form a well-structured pattern. Surely there is a lesson here that quantum mechanics wants to teach us; one ignores it at one’s peril.On the other hand, our way of looking at quantum mechanics is certainly unconventional; it introduces new concepts, and it approaches old concepts in a new way. That is essentially what the two letter writers point out, Hobson most emphatically when he writes that our article “is riddled with errors.” We are criticized for thinking in a different way and for asking new questions. But our way of thinking leads to the same predictions as the conventional way, so as far as experiments are concerned they are completely equivalent. As Richard Feynman says in his book The Character of Physical Law (Modern Library, 1994), suppose we have “two theories” that “have all the consequences . . . exactly the same. . . . How are we going to decide which one is right? There is no way by science, because they both agree with the experiment to the same extent.” So the criticism is baseless.At the same time, if our approach is completely equivalent to the standard one, why bother? Again Feynman gives the best answer: “For psychological reasons . . . , these two things may be far from equivalent, because one gives a man different ideas from the other. . . . There will be something, for instance, in theory A that talks about something, . . . but to find out what the corresponding thing is . . . in [theory] B may be very complicated—it may not be a very simple idea at all.” As a consequence, a new way of thinking allows one to ask new questions that, although they could be asked in the old theory as well, would have been very difficult to even envisage. That is precisely what we did. First, we raised the issue of the physics in pre- and postselected ensembles. And to reply to Hobson, no, there is nothing “erroneous” in the process of postselection. Postselection is a question about results of experiments, and every question about the results of actual measurements is legitimate. Subsequently, we discovered the concept of weak measurements, which in turn led us to discover the various effects we presented. Since the power of any new approach is given by its ability to predict new effects, one should conclude that ours is strong indeed.Furthermore, as many physicists agree, an intuitive understanding of quantum mechanics is still missing. That is why quantum physicists are surprised over and over again by the discovery of strange and unexpected fundamental effects. We hope that our new way of thinking is a step toward the long-sought intuition. Even more important, the new way of thinking may give us new ideas about what to change, if experiments ever turn out to contradict quantum mechanics and therefore require its modification. In particular, since we tinker with the idea of time— one of the most important concepts in physics—starting the change from there may be a very potent method.Shaul Mukamel refers to our experiment in which the component along some given axis of a spin-1⁄2 particle is found, by a weak measurement, to have the value √2‾/2 which is √2‾ times larger than the largest eigenvalue. He suggests an alternative explanation based on a classical vector model of spin. According to his explanation, values up to √3‾/2 should be possible. However, we presented the experiment showing √2‾/2 only because it was mathematically simple; by choosing a different postselection, we could have obtained, as results of weak measurements, values as large as we wanted. Hence the above simple classical-vector view doesn’t work.Robert Griffiths points out that there are two other time-symmetric formulations of quantum mechanics besides ours—“consistent histories” and “decoherent histories.” In particular, Griffiths is right when he emphasizes a major difference in spirit between our theory and consistent histories. The main goal of consistent histories is to find an explanation for the (apparent?) collapse of the wavefunction during a quantum measurement; although that solution is hotly disputed, as are all other solutions to the collapse problem, it is certainly a very ingenious one. However, an answer to the collapse problem is not our primary interest (though we are starting to see glimmers of an alternative answer to it using our approach).The letter by Griffiths, however, runs the risk of being misread as implying that solving the collapse problem will by itself clarify most or all of the counterintuitive aspects of quantum mechanics. That conclusion would be wrong. Quantum mechanics is strange and unusual and defies intuition in many ways; solving the collapse problem is by no means its only interesting fundamental issue. Nor can the solution of that one problem lead to a complete understanding of quantum phenomena. That particles tunnel in the first place is surprising by itself; even more so is the fact that, as we showed, perfectly good measuring devices, working with arbitrarily high precision, indicate consistently that the tunneling particles have negative kinetic energy. Equally surprising is that we can arrange a situation in which perfectly good measurements, made with as high a precision as we want, indicate that spin-1⁄2 particles have arbitrarily large spin. And these are only two examples. As far as we are aware, none of the many proposed solutions to the collapse problem make these effects seem less surprising, let alone predict them.© 2011 American Institute of Physics.

Physics Today•May 1, 2011•7 citations

The Role Of Space And Time In Non-Relativistic Quantum Physics

Rafael Andrés Alemañ Berenguer

Abstract: Since the very begining of quantum theory there started a debate on the proper role of space and time in it. Some authors assumed that space and time have their own algebraic operators. On that basis they supposed that quantum particles had “coordinates of position”, even though those coordinates were not possible to determine with infinite precision. Furthermore, time in quantum physics was taken to be on an equal foot, by means of a so-called “Heisenberg’s fourth relation of indeterminacy ” concerning time and energy. In this paper, the proper role of space and time in the core of non-relativistic quantum phsysics is analyzed. We will find that, rigorously, that relation for time and energy shows a different root. For the role of space, it will be discussed that there is no “coordinate of position ” in the conceptual structure of quantum physics because quantum particles are not point-like objects. 1.

•Jul 1, 2009•0 citations
Space and Time are essential ways by which humans think about their environment. The mathematical parameters associated with these concepts appear nearly in the same way in the formulation of both the classical and the quantum theories, but cer tainly not any more at the level of our intuitive understanding of their results. This paper aims to explain why it can be so, starting from an analysis of the way some basic principles are introduced in these theories. These principles are: localisation in space, isolation of a system, state of an isolated system, and causality. The problem of quantum non-locality is analysed again. It is shown that localising a microscopic entity can depend on the kind of localising experiment one performs. I give an example of an entity which will be considered as localised or alternatively as non-localised, depending on the localising experiment. I also discuss the ideas of time and of duration in quantum physics. I show that if duration can be properly defined for a statistical set of particles, it is not so for the individuals.
The surprising aspects of quantum information are due to two distinctly non-classical features of the quantum world: first, different quantum states need not be orthogonal and, second, quantum states may be entangled. Non-orthogonality leads to the blurring of classical distinctions. On the other hand, entanglement leads via non-locality to teleportation and other ``entanglement-assisted'' forms of communication that go beyond what is classically possible. In this article we attempt to understand these new possibilities via an analysis of the significance of entanglement for the basic physical concepts of a ``particle'' and a ``localized physical system''. Classical particles can be individuated on the basis of qualitative differences in their sets of properties. But in entangled states the ``particle labels'' of the quantum formalism usually do not pick out such sets of individuating particle properties. It is sometimes nevertheless possible to think in terms of individual particles, which may be localized; but we argue that in general the structure of quantum mechanics is at odds with such a particle interpretation. This finally leads us to the conclusion that quantum mechanics is best seen as not belonging to the category of space-time theories, in which physical quantities are functions on space-time points. The resulting picture of the quantum world is relevant for our understanding of the way in which quantum theory is non-local, and it sheds light on the novel aspects of quantum information.
La physique quantique a sa part d'étrangeté par rapport à la physique classique. La quantification, l'indéterminisme, la superposition d'états, l'intrication, ne sont pas réputés avoir d'équivalents classiques. Nous apportons ici des éléments modifiant ces affirmations, et permettant d'entrevoir un point de vue unifié sur la physique quantique et la physique classique. Nous nous plaçons pour cela dans un cadre élargi quant à l'appréhension de l'espace et du temps. Les grandes lignes de la physique quantique sont généralement écrites dans un cadre d'espace-temps établi, comme l'est la physique classique. Dans nos travaux, dès le stade de la physique classique, les concepts eux-mêmes d'espace et de temps sont questionnés et construits en opposition l'un à l'autre, selon une analyse prolongeant la théorie de la relativité. Cette construction relève d'une épistémologie relationnelle : les objets de pensée ne sont pas saisis indépendamment les uns des autres et des conditions de leur observation dans l'espace et le temps. Nous devons nous poser la question de l'espace et du temps aussi du côté de la physique quantique. Un angle d'attaque est celui des relations d'indétermination d'Heisenberg, de rôle pivot dans sa construction : selon une épistémologie relationnelle elles révèlent tout autant une indétermination de l'espace et du temps. Des relations de facture semblable peuvent être dérivées du côté classique (nous les nommons relations d'a-certitude), où la transformation de Lorentz est pleinement impliquée. Sur la base des propositions précédentes, l'interprétation de la physique quantique doit être reprise. L'abandon du déterminisme, le hasard fondamental, ne sont pas l'apanage de la théorie quantique, mais propres à toute théorie physique pour laquelle les variables d'espace et de temps sont mal déterminées. La non-localité et la non-temporalité sont les autres noms de cette indétermination. La discrétisation, ou quantification, d'une grandeur peut se comprendre de façon relationnelle comme la faible probabilité, ou le faible étalement spatio-temporel, des valeurs sautées par rapport à l'étendue des valeurs observées. Une meilleure symétrie entre les variables d'espace et celles fondant le temps permet en théorie quantique de mettre ce dernier au même niveau que l'espace (formulation d'un opérateur temps et des relations connexes). Divers caractères des théories classique et quantique sont examinés (relations entre physique quantique et relativité générale ; possible quantification de l'espace et du temps dans un cadre classique). Il ne nous apparaît pas qu'une frontière infranchissable doive séparer ce que l'on dénomme classique et ce que l'on dénomme quantique en physique. Envisager ces théories en associant étroitement leur fonctionnement à la co-construction de l'espace et du temps les met sur le même plan. Le texte offre un cadre préliminaire et qualitatif comme base de futures recherches quantitatives.
Current interpretations of quantum mechanics suggest that the classical concepts of space and time are not applicable to microscopic systems. Salecker and Wigner have recently proved that these concepts have no operational meaning for microsystems. Therefore, space-time descriptions may be valid only for macroscopic systems. It is here suggested that space and time themselves arise from, but do not have analogs in, the properties of microscopic particles, in the same way that thermodynamic properties arise as a result of interactions among the many actually existing particles of the universe. Neither the particles nor the interactions need to be described in spatial-temporal terms. This macroscopic interpretation of space-time seems compatible with the known properties of the physical world, suggests a more direct interpretation of the statistical nature of microscopic events, and offers a new approach to some physical problems.
Dans la physique moderne, l'intuition classique a priori et les concepts theoriques de l'espace-temps representent des conditions d'objectivation contradictoires. Les arguments presentes ci-dessous suggerent qu'une reconstruction des concepts theoriques non-classiques a partir d'une intuition classique serait artificielle et ne resoudrait pas cette contradiction. Cela signifie ou bien que l'intuition perd son caractere immuable et devient historique, ou bien que le processus d'objectivation n'est pas base sur des conditions absolues mais se sert de divers instruments en relativisant ceux-ci simultanement. L'analyse essaie de suivre la position d'E. Cassirer sur la question d'une crise de l'intuition et les conclusions qui s'ensuivent
Aharonov, Popescu, and Tollaksen reply: We thank the letter writers for their interest and for the opportunity to better clarify our ideas.Michael Nauenberg and Art Hobson make essentially the same point—namely, that our ideas are completely wrong. To put their criticism in the right context, we point out that the outcome of our research program is twofold. First, we have discovered an entirely new class of quantum effects; second, we present a new way of thinking about quantum mechanics.The fact that quantum mechanics predicts the effects we discovered is just that, a fact. The effects are computed using standard quantum mechanics, without additions or modifications. As such, their prediction by quantum mechanics is beyond doubt (unless one suspects algebraic mistakes). Furthermore, many of our effects have been verified experimentally; in particular, different versions of our amplification method have been used as novel technological tools. Both Nauenberg and Hobson completely ignore our effects. But one should not ignore them. They are novel and they are strange. Even more, they don’t appear in isolation, but they form a well-structured pattern. Surely there is a lesson here that quantum mechanics wants to teach us; one ignores it at one’s peril.On the other hand, our way of looking at quantum mechanics is certainly unconventional; it introduces new concepts, and it approaches old concepts in a new way. That is essentially what the two letter writers point out, Hobson most emphatically when he writes that our article “is riddled with errors.” We are criticized for thinking in a different way and for asking new questions. But our way of thinking leads to the same predictions as the conventional way, so as far as experiments are concerned they are completely equivalent. As Richard Feynman says in his book The Character of Physical Law (Modern Library, 1994), suppose we have “two theories” that “have all the consequences . . . exactly the same. . . . How are we going to decide which one is right? There is no way by science, because they both agree with the experiment to the same extent.” So the criticism is baseless.At the same time, if our approach is completely equivalent to the standard one, why bother? Again Feynman gives the best answer: “For psychological reasons . . . , these two things may be far from equivalent, because one gives a man different ideas from the other. . . . There will be something, for instance, in theory A that talks about something, . . . but to find out what the corresponding thing is . . . in [theory] B may be very complicated—it may not be a very simple idea at all.” As a consequence, a new way of thinking allows one to ask new questions that, although they could be asked in the old theory as well, would have been very difficult to even envisage. That is precisely what we did. First, we raised the issue of the physics in pre- and postselected ensembles. And to reply to Hobson, no, there is nothing “erroneous” in the process of postselection. Postselection is a question about results of experiments, and every question about the results of actual measurements is legitimate. Subsequently, we discovered the concept of weak measurements, which in turn led us to discover the various effects we presented. Since the power of any new approach is given by its ability to predict new effects, one should conclude that ours is strong indeed.Furthermore, as many physicists agree, an intuitive understanding of quantum mechanics is still missing. That is why quantum physicists are surprised over and over again by the discovery of strange and unexpected fundamental effects. We hope that our new way of thinking is a step toward the long-sought intuition. Even more important, the new way of thinking may give us new ideas about what to change, if experiments ever turn out to contradict quantum mechanics and therefore require its modification. In particular, since we tinker with the idea of time— one of the most important concepts in physics—starting the change from there may be a very potent method.Shaul Mukamel refers to our experiment in which the component along some given axis of a spin-1⁄2 particle is found, by a weak measurement, to have the value √2‾/2 which is √2‾ times larger than the largest eigenvalue. He suggests an alternative explanation based on a classical vector model of spin. According to his explanation, values up to √3‾/2 should be possible. However, we presented the experiment showing √2‾/2 only because it was mathematically simple; by choosing a different postselection, we could have obtained, as results of weak measurements, values as large as we wanted. Hence the above simple classical-vector view doesn’t work.Robert Griffiths points out that there are two other time-symmetric formulations of quantum mechanics besides ours—“consistent histories” and “decoherent histories.” In particular, Griffiths is right when he emphasizes a major difference in spirit between our theory and consistent histories. The main goal of consistent histories is to find an explanation for the (apparent?) collapse of the wavefunction during a quantum measurement; although that solution is hotly disputed, as are all other solutions to the collapse problem, it is certainly a very ingenious one. However, an answer to the collapse problem is not our primary interest (though we are starting to see glimmers of an alternative answer to it using our approach).The letter by Griffiths, however, runs the risk of being misread as implying that solving the collapse problem will by itself clarify most or all of the counterintuitive aspects of quantum mechanics. That conclusion would be wrong. Quantum mechanics is strange and unusual and defies intuition in many ways; solving the collapse problem is by no means its only interesting fundamental issue. Nor can the solution of that one problem lead to a complete understanding of quantum phenomena. That particles tunnel in the first place is surprising by itself; even more so is the fact that, as we showed, perfectly good measuring devices, working with arbitrarily high precision, indicate consistently that the tunneling particles have negative kinetic energy. Equally surprising is that we can arrange a situation in which perfectly good measurements, made with as high a precision as we want, indicate that spin-1⁄2 particles have arbitrarily large spin. And these are only two examples. As far as we are aware, none of the many proposed solutions to the collapse problem make these effects seem less surprising, let alone predict them.© 2011 American Institute of Physics.
Abstract: Since the very begining of quantum theory there started a debate on the proper role of space and time in it. Some authors assumed that space and time have their own algebraic operators. On that basis they supposed that quantum particles had “coordinates of position”, even though those coordinates were not possible to determine with infinite precision. Furthermore, time in quantum physics was taken to be on an equal foot, by means of a so-called “Heisenberg’s fourth relation of indeterminacy ” concerning time and energy. In this paper, the proper role of space and time in the core of non-relativistic quantum phsysics is analyzed. We will find that, rigorously, that relation for time and energy shows a different root. For the role of space, it will be discussed that there is no “coordinate of position ” in the conceptual structure of quantum physics because quantum particles are not point-like objects. 1.