There have been various derivations of the Schrodinger equation in the literature (e.g. (1)) based on hydrodynamics (continuity and conservation of momentum equations) with the added assumption that a velocity field u(x,t) = d/dx S(x,t) where S(x,t) is a new field. Furthermore a mathematical transformation Wv= sqrt(d(x,t)) exp(i S(x,t)) is used leading to the new function Wv(x). In (2) we compared the bound state Schrodinger scenario to the hydrodynamic equations in (1). In (1) d u(x,t)/dt = -dV/dx -dW/dx ((1)). V(x) is the usual potential and W(x) is described as a fluid stress potential. We also compared (1) to a free quantum particle and found that S(x,t) must contain a -Et piece if the hydrodynamical approach is to match quantum mechanics. In (1), ((1)) is shown to be equivalent to: d/dt partial S + ½ u(x,t)u(x,t) + W(x) + V(x) = 0 ((2)) with W being expressed in terms of spatial derivatives of density. d/dt partial S yields -E and u(x,t)=0 for a bound state so ((2)) is of the form of a conservation of energy equation. If a free quantum particle is described spatially by exp(ipx) then one may create a distribution Sum over p a(p)exp(ipx) and calculate average kinetic energy [-1/2m Sum over p a(p)pp/2m exp(ipx)] / [Sum over p a(p)exp(ipx)] and set it equal to W(x) as done in (2). In this note, we wish to examine the idea of a free particle conditional probability exp(-iEt+ipx) and compare it to the Schrodinger bound state which itself may be considered a localized solution if one ignores the internal wavefunction and considers only the center of mass features exp(-i (masses +En) t + ipoverall x) where p(overall) =0. We argue that center of mass features are contained in the Schrodinger bound state solution if one integrates over x relative to cm, the x variable in the Schrodinger equation. The idea of time t only applies to the cm, there is no time in Sum over p a(p)exp(ipx). Furthermore p(overall) =0 only if one integrates W(x) (-id/dx W) over all x (relative to cm). Also the form -i d/dx Wavefunction(free particle p) = p Wavefunction(free particle) where Conditional Prob= exp(-iEt+ipx) carries over to the bound state with: -i d/dx exp(ln(Wv)) ={ -i d/dx ln(Wv)} exp(ln(Wv)) where Wv=Sum over p a(p)exp(ipx). In other words there is an imaginary momentum -id/dx ln(Wv(x)) at each x in the bound solution so u(x,t)=0 holds for the real part. As a result, the hydrodynamical approach to quantum mechanics is not as straightforward as it may appear on the surface. We try to investigate a number of ideas related to the treatment of quantum bound states using hydrodynamics.
There have been various derivations of the Schrodinger equation in the literature (e.g. (1)) based on hydrodynamics (continuity and conservation of momentum equations) with the added assumption that a velocity field u(x,t) = d/dx S(x,t) where S(x,t) is a new field. Furthermore a mathematical transformation Wv= sqrt(d(x,t)) exp(i S(x,t)) is used leading to the new function Wv(x). In (2) we compared the bound state Schrodinger scenario to the hydrodynamic equations in (1). In (1) d u(x,t)/dt = -dV/dx -dW/dx ((1)). V(x) is the usual potential and W(x) is described as a fluid stress potential. We also compared (1) to a free quantum particle and found that S(x,t) must contain a -Et piece if the hydrodynamical approach is to match quantum mechanics. In (1), ((1)) is shown to be equivalent to: d/dt partial S + ½ u(x,t)u(x,t) + W(x) + V(x) = 0 ((2)) with W being expressed in terms of spatial derivatives of density. d/dt partial S yields -E and u(x,t)=0 for a bound state so ((2)) is of the form of a conservation of energy equation. If a free quantum particle is described spatially by exp(ipx) then one may create a distribution Sum over p a(p)exp(ipx) and calculate average kinetic energy [-1/2m Sum over p a(p)pp/2m exp(ipx)] / [Sum over p a(p)exp(ipx)] and set it equal to W(x) as done in (2). In this note, we wish to examine the idea of a free particle conditional probability exp(-iEt+ipx) and compare it to the Schrodinger bound state which itself may be considered a localized solution if one ignores the internal wavefunction and considers only the center of mass features exp(-i (masses +En) t + ipoverall x) where p(overall) =0. We argue that center of mass features are contained in the Schrodinger bound state solution if one integrates over x relative to cm, the x variable in the Schrodinger equation. The idea of time t only applies to the cm, there is no time in Sum over p a(p)exp(ipx). Furthermore p(overall) =0 only if one integrates W(x) (-id/dx W) over all x (relative to cm). Also the form -i d/dx Wavefunction(free particle p) = p Wavefunction(free particle) where Conditional Prob= exp(-iEt+ipx) carries over to the bound state with: -i d/dx exp(ln(Wv)) ={ -i d/dx ln(Wv)} exp(ln(Wv)) where Wv=Sum over p a(p)exp(ipx). In other words there is an imaginary momentum -id/dx ln(Wv(x)) at each x in the bound solution so u(x,t)=0 holds for the real part. As a result, the hydrodynamical approach to quantum mechanics is not as straightforward as it may appear on the surface. We try to investigate a number of ideas related to the treatment of quantum bound states using hydrodynamics.
In Part II we noted that in the literature the Schrodinger equation is sometimes derived (e.g. (1)) from two fluid equations which follow from Boltzmann’s transport equation, namely the continuity equation (conservation of mass) and a conservation of momentum equation. We also suggested the following flow/flux equations for a free particle: d/dx partial A = p ((1a)) and d/dt partial A = -E ((1b)) or A=-Et+px a Lorentz invariant. For a quantum free particle one may convert these into eigenvalue equations (see Part II). For a bound state one has a system with no overall net momentum, but an overall energy. Thus one may expect the free particle quantum solution exp(-iEt) to still appear. In (1), u(x,t) = velocity field is defined as d/dx S(x,t) based on the idea of irrotational flow. We argued that for u(x,t)=0 S(x,t)=f(t) where t is any function which is ambiguous. Furthermore, in order to have the equations of (1) apply for a bound state S=-Et or in other words there is a principle that d/dt S = -E i.e ((1b)). In this note we examine both a free quantum particle and a bound state in terms of the fluid approach of (1). The result S=-Et remains, but in the case of the free particle ((1a)) emerges from dS/dx = u(x,t)=p. For the bound state overall p is 0, but S=-Et still holds. As a result there is a density from the fluid approach and a related stress potential which leads to a conservation of energy equation. The stress potential, however, is equal to the average kinetic energy at each x because E= W(x)+V(x) from (1). In (1) W(x) is calculated using assumptions linking sij = < (vi-ui)(vj-uj)> to derivatives of density. We calculate average kinetic energy directly using: P(p/x) = a(p)exp(ipx) / Wv(x) where Wv(x) =wavefunction = Sum over p a(p)exp(ipx). The two results are the same.
In a quantum bound state,spatial density is given by W(x)W(x), where W(x) is the wavefunction, average momentum by -i d ln(W) /dx and average kinetic energy at x by -1/2m d/dx d/dx W / W. One may note that: -1/2m d/dx d/dx W / W + V(x) = E is the time independent Schrodinger equation which may be solved for W(x) and E without any concept of spatial density. Furthermore, one may calculate and <p*p>, also without any concept of spatial density. This differs from the case of a classical fluid situation for which there is no W(x). We argue that kinematics of a bound state are contained in W(x) and that the Schrodinger equation is like a probability conservation hydrodynamic equation with spatial density replaced with W(x) and a V(x)W(x) term which we try to explain. In addition, the “conservation of momentum” hydrodynamic equation is essentially “d/dx” of the Schrodinger equation (if mass=m=.5). This strategy differs from the general approach used throughout the literature (for example (1) and many other cases), where spatial density is taken as the starting point of a quantum hydrodynamic formalism. Spatial density is utilized in a continuity equation of the form d/dt [W*W] + d/dx [W*W v] = 0 where v is a collective velocity and d/dt the partial derivative with respect to time. We argue one only needs the concept of a wavefunction as the normalization constant of the conditional probability P(p/x)= a(p)exp(ipx) / W(x) i.e. W(x)= sum over p a(p) exp(ipx). From this wavefunction, one may calculate and <p*p>. Thus we argue that hydrodynamic type equations should apply to W(x). We pointed out in (2), that W(x) in fact satisfies a momentum continuity hydrodynamic equation if mass=.5.
In the literature (e.g. (1)) the Schrodinger equation is sometimes derived using classical fluid equations which follow from Boltzmann’s transport equations. In particular a continuity equation and a conservation of momentum equation involving the potential dV(x)/dx are used. We have argued in Part I that the continuity equation leads to 0+0=0 for a free particle wavefunction exp(-iEt+ipx) because density is 1. Furthermore a bound quantum state also leads to 0+0=0 partly because d/dt partial density(x) =0. Following the analysis of (1) for which a new field S(x,t) is introduced through u(x,t) =velocity field = d/dx partial S(x,t) one may see that the solution S(x,t)= f(t) for any function f yields u(x,t)=0 for a bound state. In fact, for a bound state, the continuity equation contributes nothing to the derivation of the Schrodinger equation except for the result density(x) (no t present) which is known already. The Schrodinger equation for the bound state follows completely from the fluid transport equation containing dV/dx. For this to occur, however, one must use S(x,t)=-Et. It seems, however, that for a bound state with u(x,t) the natural approach is to have S(x,t) =0 Setting S(x,t)= -Et is equivalent to having exp(-iEt) appear in the wavefunction and we argue in this note that this is an independent assumption which does not follow from fluid mechanics. In particular, we link -Et for the bound state to A(x,t)=classical action = -Et+px. For a bound state there is an average energy value, but overall p average is 0. For the free particle quantum system we argued that two flow flux equations d/dx partial A = p ((1a)) and d/dt partial A = -E ((1b)) govern the system. These may be written separately as eigenvalue equations yielding: id/dt partial exp(iA) = E exp(iA) ((2a)) and -id/dx partial exp(iA) = p exp(iA) ((2b)). We show that exp(-iEt) for the bound state is a built-in assumption needed to make the fluid mechanical equation approach to the Schrodinger equation work. As a result, this assumption id/dt exp(iA)=E exp(iA) needs to be presented together with the two fluid equations, otherwise one does not derive the Schrodinger equation. In fact, one may use ((1a)) and ((1b)), the two flux/flow equations we propose for a free particle and create a momentum distribution P(x/p) = a(p) exp(ipx)/W(x) where W(x)=wavefunction = Sum over p a(p) exp(ipx). Using conservation of energy at each x point: [Sum over p a(p)pp/2m exp(ipx)] / W + V(x) = E leads to the Schrodinger equation without the use of fluid equations.
In the literature (1), the Schrodinger equation: {p1p1/2m + p2p2/2m + V(x1-x2)} W(x1,x2,t) = id/dt partial W(x1,x2,t) may be transformed using P=p1+p2 and (p=m1p2-m2p1)/M and x=x1=x2 where M=m1+m2 ((1)). This leads to a bound Schrodinger equation in x and a “center of mass” equation” in P i..e Hcm =PP/2M which depends on m1 and m2, but not binding energy. . In a previous note, we argued that a free particle’s classical action A (relativistic or nonrelativistic) may be obtained by setting v=x/t and treating x and t as independent (2). This leads to dA/dx partial=p and dA/dt partial = -E. One may write eigenvalue equations: -id/dx partial exp(iA) = pexp(iA) and id/dt partial exp(iA) = E exp(iA). A solution is A=-Et+px with E,t,p and x independent. -Et+px is a Lorentz invariant and this form is used in both relativistic and nonrelativistic quantum mechanics (although E and p have different values). We argue that a free particle rest mass mo may actually involve internal quantum physics, yet the “system” is replaced with a parameter mo and exp(-iEt+px) used to describe it. One may try to apply this approach to a bound system, but exp(-iEt+px) is a statistical probability like object. Thus one needs a statistical theory. We have suggested using an ensemble of exp(-iEt+px) with E=En for all p to indicate a resonance. Then: { Sum over p pp/2m a(p)exp(ipx) } / {Sum over p a(p)exp(ipx) } + V(x) = En ((2)) This is the Schrodinger bound equation. We argue that W=Sum over p a(p)exp(ipx) should be real and this implies that Sum over p a(p) p exp(ipx) = 0 i.e. average momentum for this type of average is 0. As a result, one may create a 4-vector using { 0, mcc + En} and use the Lorentz boost approach to find the momentum and energy in a moving frame. One may then take the nonrelativistic limit to find kinetic energy i.e. the full center of mass kinetic energy. We argue that this is equivalent to considering exp(-iEt+ipx) for the overall bound system which is now translating in space. We argue that ((2)) is a different approach to ((1)) in that binding energy, which may be significant with respect to mcc, should be part of the overall energy of the translating bound system which is called the “center of mass” system in the literature.
In a previous note (1), we argued that W(x+dx)= W(x) exp(i dx ) where = - i d/dx lnW mimicking the behaviour of exp(ipx) for a free quantum particle. In this note, we consider that for the conditional probability P(p/x)= a(p) exp(ipx)/W(x), a shift from x to x+dx leads to: P(p/ x+dx) = P(p/x) exp(i dx (p- ) ) = P(p/x)(1+ idx (p- )). We note that in shifting from x to x+dx the overall sum of probability should not change, so P(p / x+dx)= P(p/x) + P(p/x) g(p,x). If one assumes that g(p,x) is a function of p alone, the simplest solution is p- . If one considers Sum over p pp/2m P(p/x+dx) = Sum over p pp/2m P(p/x) = delta KE ave then this should be equal to Force(x) dx. We also consider classical hydrodynamical equations and compare these with modified equations applying to the bound state quantum situation. The two sets of equations are very similar with density in the classical case being replaced with W(x)exp(-iEt), the wavefunction, and E energy or V(x) (potential) terms replaced with 2E or 2V (i.e. also 2Force). In a previous note, we had considered hydrodynamical equations with the restriction 2m=1 which is too strong. Here any m (mass) may be used.
In the literature, stochastic approaches employed to derive the Schrodinger equation seem to focus on the idea of a classical spatial density which depends on time and space ie. density(x,t). As a result, d/dt (partial) density appears in various equations such as the continuity and Focker Planck equations. At one point in the derivation the quantum wavefunction is introduced “mathematically” as W(x,t)=sqrt(density(x,t)) exp(i S(x,t)) where S is related to a velocity field through u(x,t)=velocity= d/dx S. From quantum mechanics, -Et becomes a term of S the velocity field. The stochastic/hydrodynamical approaches employ the term du/dt partial = d/dt (partial) d/dx S and then “pull out”” d/dx leaving d/dt (partial) S which yields -E average energy from the -Et term. In this note we argue that for a bound quantum state density(x) so d/dt (partial) density = 0, yet the statistical ideas of quantum mechanics should be present in such a case. Furthermore for the free particle wavefunction exp(ipx-iEt), density=1. In fact, the Schrodinger equation should follow for a free particle even the case of density=1. Stochastic processes seem to be based on equations which consider a change in classical spatial density at a point x in time due to flow in or out or stochastic changes. Quantum processes seem to deal with periodic probability changes from one dimension to another exp(ipx) (2 dimensions) which are somehow related to a physical process of momentum flow. Ultimately one links this process to an energy conservation which does not seem to be the same as a classical stochastic/hydrodynamical approach. In this note we argue that a free particle with a constant momentum p has periodic stochastic processes associated with it through its complex probability change in the region of its wavelength, but that these are linked to creating the momentum p. Furthermore momentum is linked to energy so we argue that the Schrodinger equation is a stochastic equation linking energy and momentum and that time and space are separated i.e. there is no situation of following a change in spatial density in time for a free particle with momentum p. For a bound state, one has a distribution of free particles, but again time is removed from the problem in the sense that it only appears in exp(-iEt) in the wavefunction to again establish a relationship between energy and average momentum and potential. There is again no nonzero d/dt (partial) density term which seems to be key in stochastic equations. Only if one takes a linear combination of energy eigenstates Sum over En an(En) exp(-iEnt) Wn(x) does one obtain the form density(x,t), but we argue that quantum features should already appear in exp(ipx) and the bound state scenario with a zero d/dt (partial) density(x,t). We argue, however, that the Schrodinger equation and fundamental stochastic ideas of quantum mechanics should already be present at the level of exp(ipx).