Challenges
Datasets
Workspaces
Papers
Discussions
Leaderboard
Log inSign up
Challenges
Datasets
Workspaces
Papers
Discussions
Leaderboard
Blog
Job Board
Q3AS

© 2026 Aqora Quantum S.A.S.

TermsPrivacyLegal Notice

On gravity's role in quantum state reduction

Roger Penrose

Published Jan 1, 2001• 5 citations
OpenAlex

Abstract

The stability of a quantum superposition f two different stationary mass distributions is examined, where the perturbing effect of each distribution on the space-time structure is taken into account, in accordance with the principles of general relativity. It is argued that the definition of the time-translation operator for the superposed space-times involves an inherent ill-definedness, leading to an essential uncertainty in the energy of the superposed state which, in the Newtonian limit, is proportional to the gravitational self-energy EA of the difference between the two mass distributions. This is consistent with a suggested finite lifetime of the order of?t/ELx for the superposed state, in agreement with a certain proposal made by the author for a gravitationally induced spontaneous quantum state reduction, and with closely related earlier suggestions by Di6si and by Ghirardi et al. 1. THE PROBLEM OF QUANTUM STATE REDUCTION The fundamental problem of quantum mechanics, as that theory is presently understood, is to make sense of the reduction of the state vector (i.e. collapse of the wavefunction), denoted here by R. This issue is usually addressed in terms of the "quantum measurement problem", which is to comprehend how, upon measurement of a quantum system, this (seem-ingly) discontinuous R-process can come about. A measurement, after all, merely consists of the quantum state under consideration becoming en-tangled with a more extended part of the physical universe, e.g. with a

Related papers

On gravity's role in quantum state reduction

Roger Penrose

The problem of quantum state reduction The fundamental problem of quantum mechanics, as that theory is presently understood, is to make sense of the reduction of the state vector (i.e. collapse of the wave function ), denoted here by R . This issue is usually addressed in terms of the ‘quantum measurement problem’, which is to comprehend how, upon measurement of a quantum system, this (seemingly) discontinuous R -process can come about. A measurement, after all, merely consists of the quantum state under consideration becoming entangled with a more extended part of the physical universe, e.g. with a measuring apparatus. This measuring apparatus – together with the observing physicist and their common environment – should, according to conventional understanding, all also have some quantum description. Accordingly, there should be a quantum description of this entire quantum state, involving not only the original system under consideration but also the apparatus, physicist, and remaining environment – and this entire state would be expected to evolve continuously, solely according to the Schrödinger equation (unitary evolution), here denoted by the symbol U . Numerous different attitudes to R have been expressed over many years, ever since quantum mechanics was first clearly formulated. The most influential viewpoint has been the ‘Copenhagen interpretation’ of Niels Bohr, according to which the state vector │ψ〉 is not to be taken seriously as describing a quantum-level physical reality, but is to be regarded as merely referring to our (maximal) ‘knowledge’ of a physical system, and whose ultimate role is simply to provide us with a means to calculate probabilities when a measurement is performed on the system.

Cambridge University Press eBooks•Jan 29, 2001•18 citations

On Gravity Implication in the Wavefunction Collapse

A. Belhaj, Salah Eddine Ennadifi

Inspired by an ontic view of the wavefunction in quantum mechanics and motivated by the universal interaction of gravity, we discuss a possible gravity implication in the state collapse mechanism. Concretely, we investigate the stability of the spatial superposition of a massive quantum state under the gravity effect. In this context, we argue that the stability of the spatially superposed state depends on its gravitational self-energy originating from the effective mass density distribution through the spatially localized eigenstates. We reveal that the gravitational self-interaction between the different spacetime curvatures created by the eigenstate effective masses leads to the reduction of the superposed state to one of the possible localized states. Among others, we discuss such a gravity-driven state reduction. Then, we approach the corresponding collapse time and the induced effective electric current in the case of a charged state, as well as the possible detection aspects.

arXiv:2411.04883•Nov 7, 2024•0 citations

Why the Quantum Must Yield to Gravity

Joy Christian

After providing an extensive overview of the conceptual elements – such as Einstein’s ‘hole argument ’ – that underpin Penrose’s proposal for gravitationally induced quantum state reduction, the proposal is constructively criticised. Penrose has suggested a mechanism for objective reduction of quantum states with postulated collapse time τ = ¯h/∆E, where ∆E is an ill-definedness in the gravitational self-energy stemming from the profound conflict between the principles of superposition and general covariance. Here it is argued that, even if Penrose’s overall conceptual scheme for the breakdown of quantum mechanics is unreservedly accepted, his formula for the collapse time of superpositions reduces to τ → ∞ (∆E → 0) in the strictly Newtonian regime, which is the domain of his proposed experiment to corroborate the effect. A suggestion is made to rectify this situation. In particular, recognising the cogency of Penrose’s reasoning in the domain of full ‘quantum gravity’, it is demonstrated that an appropriate experiment which could in principle corroborate his argued ‘macroscopic ’ breakdown of superpositions is not the one involving non-rotating mass distributions as he has suggested, but a Leggett-type SQUID or BEC

•Sep 13, 2013•27 citations

On the Gravitization of Quantum Mechanics 1: Quantum State Reduction

Roger Penrose

This paper argues that the case for “gravitizing” quantum theory is at least as strong as that for quantizing gravity. Accordingly, the principles of general relativity must influence, and actually change , the very formalism of quantum mechanics. Most particularly, an “Einsteinian”, rather than a “Newtonian” treatment of the gravitational field should be adopted, in a quantum system, in order that the principle of equivalence be fully respected. This leads to an expectation that quantum superpositions of states involving a significant mass displacement should have a finite lifetime, in accordance with a proposal previously put forward by Diósi and the author.

Foundations of Physics•Jan 10, 2014•343 citations

Quantum State Reduction via Gravity, and Possible Tests Using Bose–Einstein Condensates

Gao Shan

It has been proposed that because of a fundamental conflict between basic principles of quantum mechanics and general relativity, a superposition between stationary quantum states that differ in mass distribution would reduce spontaneously to one or the other in a timescale inversely proportional to the gravitational self-energy of this mass-distribution difference. Here, we present arguments in favour of this proposal and suggest a possible test using Bose-Einstein condensates.

Cambridge University Press eBooks•Apr 20, 2018•5 citations

On gravity implication in the wave function collapse

A. Belhaj, Salah Eddine Ennadifi

Abstract Inspired by an ontic view of the wave function in quantum mechanics and motivated by the universal interaction of gravity, we discuss a possible gravity implication in the state collapse mechanism. Concretely, we investigate the stability of the spatial superposition of a massive quantum state under the gravity effect. In this context, we argue that the stability of the spatially superposed state , depends on its gravitational self-energy originating from the effective mass density distribution through the spatially localized eigenstates . We reveal that the gravitational self-interaction between the different spacetime curvatures created by the eigenstate effective masses leads to the reduction of the superposed state to one of the possible localized states . Among others, we discuss such a gravity-driven state reduction. Then, we approach the corresponding collapse time and the induced effective electric current in the case of a charged state, as well as the possible detection aspects.

Europhysics Letters (EPL)•Nov 1, 2024•0 citations
The stability of a quantum superposition f two different stationary mass distributions is examined, where the perturbing effect of each distribution on the space-time structure is taken into account, in accordance with the principles of general relativity. It is argued that the definition of the time-translation operator for the superposed space-times involves an inherent ill-definedness, leading to an essential uncertainty in the energy of the superposed state which, in the Newtonian limit, is proportional to the gravitational self-energy EA of the difference between the two mass distributions. This is consistent with a suggested finite lifetime of the order of?t/ELx for the superposed state, in agreement with a certain proposal made by the author for a gravitationally induced spontaneous quantum state reduction, and with closely related earlier suggestions by Di6si and by Ghirardi et al. 1. THE PROBLEM OF QUANTUM STATE REDUCTION The fundamental problem of quantum mechanics, as that theory is presently understood, is to make sense of the reduction of the state vector (i.e. collapse of the wavefunction), denoted here by R. This issue is usually addressed in terms of the "quantum measurement problem", which is to comprehend how, upon measurement of a quantum system, this (seem-ingly) discontinuous R-process can come about. A measurement, after all, merely consists of the quantum state under consideration becoming en-tangled with a more extended part of the physical universe, e.g. with a
The problem of quantum state reduction The fundamental problem of quantum mechanics, as that theory is presently understood, is to make sense of the reduction of the state vector (i.e. collapse of the wave function ), denoted here by R . This issue is usually addressed in terms of the ‘quantum measurement problem’, which is to comprehend how, upon measurement of a quantum system, this (seemingly) discontinuous R -process can come about. A measurement, after all, merely consists of the quantum state under consideration becoming entangled with a more extended part of the physical universe, e.g. with a measuring apparatus. This measuring apparatus – together with the observing physicist and their common environment – should, according to conventional understanding, all also have some quantum description. Accordingly, there should be a quantum description of this entire quantum state, involving not only the original system under consideration but also the apparatus, physicist, and remaining environment – and this entire state would be expected to evolve continuously, solely according to the Schrödinger equation (unitary evolution), here denoted by the symbol U . Numerous different attitudes to R have been expressed over many years, ever since quantum mechanics was first clearly formulated. The most influential viewpoint has been the ‘Copenhagen interpretation’ of Niels Bohr, according to which the state vector │ψ〉 is not to be taken seriously as describing a quantum-level physical reality, but is to be regarded as merely referring to our (maximal) ‘knowledge’ of a physical system, and whose ultimate role is simply to provide us with a means to calculate probabilities when a measurement is performed on the system.
Inspired by an ontic view of the wavefunction in quantum mechanics and motivated by the universal interaction of gravity, we discuss a possible gravity implication in the state collapse mechanism. Concretely, we investigate the stability of the spatial superposition of a massive quantum state under the gravity effect. In this context, we argue that the stability of the spatially superposed state depends on its gravitational self-energy originating from the effective mass density distribution through the spatially localized eigenstates. We reveal that the gravitational self-interaction between the different spacetime curvatures created by the eigenstate effective masses leads to the reduction of the superposed state to one of the possible localized states. Among others, we discuss such a gravity-driven state reduction. Then, we approach the corresponding collapse time and the induced effective electric current in the case of a charged state, as well as the possible detection aspects.
After providing an extensive overview of the conceptual elements – such as Einstein’s ‘hole argument ’ – that underpin Penrose’s proposal for gravitationally induced quantum state reduction, the proposal is constructively criticised. Penrose has suggested a mechanism for objective reduction of quantum states with postulated collapse time τ = ¯h/∆E, where ∆E is an ill-definedness in the gravitational self-energy stemming from the profound conflict between the principles of superposition and general covariance. Here it is argued that, even if Penrose’s overall conceptual scheme for the breakdown of quantum mechanics is unreservedly accepted, his formula for the collapse time of superpositions reduces to τ → ∞ (∆E → 0) in the strictly Newtonian regime, which is the domain of his proposed experiment to corroborate the effect. A suggestion is made to rectify this situation. In particular, recognising the cogency of Penrose’s reasoning in the domain of full ‘quantum gravity’, it is demonstrated that an appropriate experiment which could in principle corroborate his argued ‘macroscopic ’ breakdown of superpositions is not the one involving non-rotating mass distributions as he has suggested, but a Leggett-type SQUID or BEC
This paper argues that the case for “gravitizing” quantum theory is at least as strong as that for quantizing gravity. Accordingly, the principles of general relativity must influence, and actually change , the very formalism of quantum mechanics. Most particularly, an “Einsteinian”, rather than a “Newtonian” treatment of the gravitational field should be adopted, in a quantum system, in order that the principle of equivalence be fully respected. This leads to an expectation that quantum superpositions of states involving a significant mass displacement should have a finite lifetime, in accordance with a proposal previously put forward by Diósi and the author.
Abstract Inspired by an ontic view of the wave function in quantum mechanics and motivated by the universal interaction of gravity, we discuss a possible gravity implication in the state collapse mechanism. Concretely, we investigate the stability of the spatial superposition of a massive quantum state under the gravity effect. In this context, we argue that the stability of the spatially superposed state , depends on its gravitational self-energy originating from the effective mass density distribution through the spatially localized eigenstates . We reveal that the gravitational self-interaction between the different spacetime curvatures created by the eigenstate effective masses leads to the reduction of the superposed state to one of the possible localized states . Among others, we discuss such a gravity-driven state reduction. Then, we approach the corresponding collapse time and the induced effective electric current in the case of a charged state, as well as the possible detection aspects.