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H-atom in Stochastic Electrodynamics

Theo M. Nieuwenhuizen, Matthew Liska

Published Jun 22, 2015• 0 citations
OpenAlex

Abstract

In a recent paper [arXiv:1502.06856] the authors studied numerically the hydrogen ground state in stochastic electrodynamics (SED) within the the non-relativistic approximation. In quantum theory the leading non-relativistic corrections to the ground state energy dominate the Lamb shift related to the photon cloud that should cause the quantum-like behaviour of SED. The present work takes these corrections into account in the numerical modelling. It is found that they have little effect; the self-ionisation that occurs without them remains present. It is speculated that the point-charge approximation for the electron is the cause of the failure.

Related papers

On the Stability of Classical Orbits of the Hydrogen Ground State in Stochastic Electrodynamics

Theo M. Nieuwenhuizen

De la Peña 1980 and Puthoff 1987 show that circular orbits in the hydrogen problem of Stochastic Electrodynamics connect to a stable situation, where the electron neither collapses onto the nucleus nor gets expelled from the atom. Although the Cole-Zou 2003 simulations support the stability, our recent numerics always lead to self-ionisation. Here the de la Peña-Puthoff argument is extended to elliptic orbits. For very eccentric orbits with energy close to zero and angular momentum below some not-small value, there is on the average a net gain in energy for each revolution, which explains the self-ionisation. Next, an 1 / r 2 potential is added, which could stem from a dipolar deformation of the nuclear charge by the electron at its moving position. This shape retains the analytical solvability. When it is enough repulsive, the ground state of this modified hydrogen problem is predicted to be stable. The same conclusions hold for positronium.

arXiv:1611.10200•Entropy•Apr 13, 2016•11 citations

Simulation of the hydrogen ground state in stochastic electrodynamics

Theo M. Nieuwenhuizen, Matthew Liska

Stochastic electrodynamics is a classical theory which assumes that the physical vacuum consists of classical stochastic fields with average energy 1 2 ℏ ω in each mode, i.e., the zero-point Planck spectrum. While this classical theory explains many quantum phenomena related to harmonic oscillator problems, hard results on nonlinear systems are still lacking. In this work the hydrogen ground state is studied by numerically solving the Abraham–Lorentz equation in the dipole approximation. First the stochastic Gaussian field is represented by a sum over Gaussian frequency components, next the dynamics is solved numerically using OpenCL. The approach improves on work by Cole and Zou 2003 by treating the full 3 d problem and reaching longer simulation times. The results are compared with a conjecture for the ground state phase space density. Though short time results suggest a trend towards confirmation, in all attempted modellings the atom ionises at longer times.

arXiv:1502.06856•Physica Scripta•Oct 1, 2015•21 citations

On the extended Stochastic Electrodynamics Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics

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Abstract An extended version of Stochastic Electrodynamics (SED) which provides an interpretation of Quantum Mechanics free of its preternatural aspects is reviewed briefly. In addition, recent simulations of the hydrogen ground state based on SED which have been inconclusive are criticized for having employed only a restricted understating of the physical consequences of the hypothetical underpinning of SED.

Journal of Physics Conference Series•Jun 1, 2019•0 citations

Simulation Results Related to Stochastic Electrodynamics

Daniel C. Cole

Stochastic electrodynamics (SED) is a classical theory of nature advanced significantly in the 1960s by Trevor Marshall and Timothy Boyer. Since then, SED has continued to be investigated by a very small group of physicists. Early investigations seemed promising, as SED was shown to agree with quantum mechanics (QM) and quantum electrodynamics (QED) for a few linear systems. In particular, agreement was found for the simple harmonic electric dipole oscillator, physical systems composed of such oscillators and interacting electromagnetically, and free electromagnetic fields with boundary conditions imposed such as would enter into Casimir‐type force calculations. These results were found to hold for both zero‐point and non‐zero temperature conditions. However, by the late 1970s and then into the early 1980s, researchers found that when investigating nonlinear systems, SED did not appear to provide agreement with the predictions of QM and QED. A proposed reason for this disagreement was advocated by Boyer and Cole that such nonlinear systems are not sufficiently realistic for describing atomic and molecular physical systems, which should be fundamentally based on the Coulombic binding potential. Analytic attempts on these systems have proven to be most difficult. Consequently, in recent years more attention has been placed on numerically simulating the interaction of a classical electron in a Coulombic binding potential, with classical electromagnetic radiation acting on the classical electron. Good agreement was found for this numerical simulation work as compared with predictions from QM. Here this worked is reviewed and possible directions are discussed. Recent simulation work involving subharmonic resonances for the classical hydrogen atom is also discussed; some of the properties of these subharmonic resonances seem quite interesting and unusual.

AIP conference proceedings•Jan 1, 2006•12 citations

Stochastic Electrodynamics: Renormalized Noise in the Hydrogen Ground-State Problem

Theo M. Nieuwenhuizen

The hydrogen ground state problem is a touchstone for the theory of Stochastic Electrodynamics. Recently, we have shown numerically and theoretically that the H-atom self-ionizes after a characteristic time. In another approach we reconsidered the harmonic oscillator and renormalized the stochastic force in order to suppress high-frequency tails so that all frequency integrals are dominated by the physical resonances. In the present work we consider the regularization of the noise in the hydrogen ground state problem. Several renormalization schemes are considered. Some are well behaved, while in other ones, the high frequency renormalization induces pathologies at low frequencies. In no situation we find a way to escape from the previously signaled self-ionization.

Frontiers in Physics•Oct 23, 2020•3 citations

Beyond the classical view of atoms

David L. Rosen

The article “Insights from the classical atom,” by Petar Grujić and Nenad Simonović (Physics Today, May 2012, page 41), was interesting but incomplete. It left out stochastic electrodynamics (SED), an approach to classical mechanics that includes the effects of a proposed zero-point radiation background.The zero-point radiation is a Lorentz-invariant random distribution of energy into different modes of electromagnetic radiation. Quantum electrodynamics (QED) uses the hypothesis that the amplitudes of the Lorentz-invariant radiation are quantized, whereas SED uses the hypothesis that they are continuous.The motions of electric charges in SED are modeled using the equations of motion for a particle, often associated with a concrete visualization. SED is considered part of classical physics because of the continuous distribution of amplitudes. However, discrete values for energy and momentum emerge from SED without the ad hoc quantization conditions of QED.Stochastic electrodynamics has been investigated as a classical physics explanation for quantum phenomena. For instance, the blackbody radiation spectrum has been derived without quantum assumptions.11. T. H. Boyer, Phys. Rev. 182, 1374 (1969). https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRev.182.1374 Lorentz-invariant radiation provides perturbations that mimic quantum phenomena such as the Casimir force, the van der Waals force, the Lamb shift, and the radius of the Bohr atom.22. M. Ibison, B. Haisch, Phys. Rev. A 54, 2737 (1996). https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevA.54.2737Physical chemistry provides many mathematical expressions that are often thought to be fundamentally quantum in nature. However, some of those expressions have been shown to emerge from both QED and SED. For example, the Schrödinger equation has been derived from SED,33. G. H. Goedecke, Found. Phys. 13, 1101 (1983); https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00728139 G. H. Goedecke, Found. Phys. 13, 1195 (1983). https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00727993 and the wavefunction in the SED Schrödinger equation is shown to have the a priori significance of position probability amplitude. A physical model based on SED has been developed to increase our understanding of both the diffraction of particle beams and the Pauli exclusion principle.44. A. F. Kracklauer, Found. Phys. Lett. 12, 441 (1999). https://doi.org/10.1023/A:1021629310707Quantum mechanics is often cited to justify chemical bonding on an elementary level. However, the visualizations used for chemical bonding are often based on mathematical expressions that can be derived from either QED or SED. Regardless of which turns out to be more accurate in physics experiments or more complete in mathematical description, the two theories overlap with regard to physical chemistry. Therefore, I propose that introductory chemistry taught in secondary schools can be rationalized as easily by references to SED as to QED.Either theory produces identical predictions for many experiments involving second-order correlations, squeezing (quadrature noise reduction), and the original Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen proposal.55. S. Chaturvedi, P. D. Drummond, Phys. Rev. A 55, 912 (1997). https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevA.55.912 However, SED is not completely equivalent to QED on a mathematical or physical level. The SED Schrödinger equation is incomplete, because there is a companion equation that has no counterpart in ordinary quantum mechanics and restricts initial conditions.33. G. H. Goedecke, Found. Phys. 13, 1101 (1983); https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00728139 G. H. Goedecke, Found. Phys. 13, 1195 (1983). https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00727993 Furthermore, the predictions of QED and SED are different with regard to high-order correlations in nonlinear optics.I agree fully with Grujić and Simonović that the classical atom is alive and well. Models of the atom based on SED are sufficiently accurate for many technological and most pedagogical applications. Even if the classical atom isn’t the most fundamental description of the physical world, it is still an important one.REFERENCESSection:ChooseTop of pageREFERENCES <<CITING ARTICLES1. T. H. Boyer, Phys. Rev. 182, 1374 (1969). https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRev.182.1374, Google ScholarCrossref, ISI2. M. Ibison, B. Haisch, Phys. Rev. A 54, 2737 (1996). https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevA.54.2737, Google ScholarCrossref, ISI3. G. H. Goedecke, Found. Phys. 13, 1101 (1983); https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00728139 , Google ScholarCrossref, ISIG. H. Goedecke, Found. Phys. 13, 1195 (1983). https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00727993, , Google ScholarCrossref, ISI4. A. F. Kracklauer, Found. Phys. Lett. 12, 441 (1999). https://doi.org/10.1023/A:1021629310707, Google ScholarCrossref, ISI5. S. Chaturvedi, P. D. Drummond, Phys. Rev. A 55, 912 (1997). https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevA.55.912, Google ScholarCrossref, ISI© 2013 American Institute of Physics.

Physics Today•Apr 30, 2013•2 citations
In a recent paper [arXiv:1502.06856] the authors studied numerically the hydrogen ground state in stochastic electrodynamics (SED) within the the non-relativistic approximation. In quantum theory the leading non-relativistic corrections to the ground state energy dominate the Lamb shift related to the photon cloud that should cause the quantum-like behaviour of SED. The present work takes these corrections into account in the numerical modelling. It is found that they have little effect; the self-ionisation that occurs without them remains present. It is speculated that the point-charge approximation for the electron is the cause of the failure.
De la Peña 1980 and Puthoff 1987 show that circular orbits in the hydrogen problem of Stochastic Electrodynamics connect to a stable situation, where the electron neither collapses onto the nucleus nor gets expelled from the atom. Although the Cole-Zou 2003 simulations support the stability, our recent numerics always lead to self-ionisation. Here the de la Peña-Puthoff argument is extended to elliptic orbits. For very eccentric orbits with energy close to zero and angular momentum below some not-small value, there is on the average a net gain in energy for each revolution, which explains the self-ionisation. Next, an 1 / r 2 potential is added, which could stem from a dipolar deformation of the nuclear charge by the electron at its moving position. This shape retains the analytical solvability. When it is enough repulsive, the ground state of this modified hydrogen problem is predicted to be stable. The same conclusions hold for positronium.
Stochastic electrodynamics is a classical theory which assumes that the physical vacuum consists of classical stochastic fields with average energy 1 2 ℏ ω in each mode, i.e., the zero-point Planck spectrum. While this classical theory explains many quantum phenomena related to harmonic oscillator problems, hard results on nonlinear systems are still lacking. In this work the hydrogen ground state is studied by numerically solving the Abraham–Lorentz equation in the dipole approximation. First the stochastic Gaussian field is represented by a sum over Gaussian frequency components, next the dynamics is solved numerically using OpenCL. The approach improves on work by Cole and Zou 2003 by treating the full 3 d problem and reaching longer simulation times. The results are compared with a conjecture for the ground state phase space density. Though short time results suggest a trend towards confirmation, in all attempted modellings the atom ionises at longer times.
Stochastic electrodynamics (SED) is a classical theory of nature advanced significantly in the 1960s by Trevor Marshall and Timothy Boyer. Since then, SED has continued to be investigated by a very small group of physicists. Early investigations seemed promising, as SED was shown to agree with quantum mechanics (QM) and quantum electrodynamics (QED) for a few linear systems. In particular, agreement was found for the simple harmonic electric dipole oscillator, physical systems composed of such oscillators and interacting electromagnetically, and free electromagnetic fields with boundary conditions imposed such as would enter into Casimir‐type force calculations. These results were found to hold for both zero‐point and non‐zero temperature conditions. However, by the late 1970s and then into the early 1980s, researchers found that when investigating nonlinear systems, SED did not appear to provide agreement with the predictions of QM and QED. A proposed reason for this disagreement was advocated by Boyer and Cole that such nonlinear systems are not sufficiently realistic for describing atomic and molecular physical systems, which should be fundamentally based on the Coulombic binding potential. Analytic attempts on these systems have proven to be most difficult. Consequently, in recent years more attention has been placed on numerically simulating the interaction of a classical electron in a Coulombic binding potential, with classical electromagnetic radiation acting on the classical electron. Good agreement was found for this numerical simulation work as compared with predictions from QM. Here this worked is reviewed and possible directions are discussed. Recent simulation work involving subharmonic resonances for the classical hydrogen atom is also discussed; some of the properties of these subharmonic resonances seem quite interesting and unusual.
The hydrogen ground state problem is a touchstone for the theory of Stochastic Electrodynamics. Recently, we have shown numerically and theoretically that the H-atom self-ionizes after a characteristic time. In another approach we reconsidered the harmonic oscillator and renormalized the stochastic force in order to suppress high-frequency tails so that all frequency integrals are dominated by the physical resonances. In the present work we consider the regularization of the noise in the hydrogen ground state problem. Several renormalization schemes are considered. Some are well behaved, while in other ones, the high frequency renormalization induces pathologies at low frequencies. In no situation we find a way to escape from the previously signaled self-ionization.
The article “Insights from the classical atom,” by Petar Grujić and Nenad Simonović (Physics Today, May 2012, page 41), was interesting but incomplete. It left out stochastic electrodynamics (SED), an approach to classical mechanics that includes the effects of a proposed zero-point radiation background.The zero-point radiation is a Lorentz-invariant random distribution of energy into different modes of electromagnetic radiation. Quantum electrodynamics (QED) uses the hypothesis that the amplitudes of the Lorentz-invariant radiation are quantized, whereas SED uses the hypothesis that they are continuous.The motions of electric charges in SED are modeled using the equations of motion for a particle, often associated with a concrete visualization. SED is considered part of classical physics because of the continuous distribution of amplitudes. However, discrete values for energy and momentum emerge from SED without the ad hoc quantization conditions of QED.Stochastic electrodynamics has been investigated as a classical physics explanation for quantum phenomena. For instance, the blackbody radiation spectrum has been derived without quantum assumptions.11. T. H. Boyer, Phys. Rev. 182, 1374 (1969). https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRev.182.1374 Lorentz-invariant radiation provides perturbations that mimic quantum phenomena such as the Casimir force, the van der Waals force, the Lamb shift, and the radius of the Bohr atom.22. M. Ibison, B. Haisch, Phys. Rev. A 54, 2737 (1996). https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevA.54.2737Physical chemistry provides many mathematical expressions that are often thought to be fundamentally quantum in nature. However, some of those expressions have been shown to emerge from both QED and SED. For example, the Schrödinger equation has been derived from SED,33. G. H. Goedecke, Found. Phys. 13, 1101 (1983); https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00728139 G. H. Goedecke, Found. Phys. 13, 1195 (1983). https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00727993 and the wavefunction in the SED Schrödinger equation is shown to have the a priori significance of position probability amplitude. A physical model based on SED has been developed to increase our understanding of both the diffraction of particle beams and the Pauli exclusion principle.44. A. F. Kracklauer, Found. Phys. Lett. 12, 441 (1999). https://doi.org/10.1023/A:1021629310707Quantum mechanics is often cited to justify chemical bonding on an elementary level. However, the visualizations used for chemical bonding are often based on mathematical expressions that can be derived from either QED or SED. Regardless of which turns out to be more accurate in physics experiments or more complete in mathematical description, the two theories overlap with regard to physical chemistry. Therefore, I propose that introductory chemistry taught in secondary schools can be rationalized as easily by references to SED as to QED.Either theory produces identical predictions for many experiments involving second-order correlations, squeezing (quadrature noise reduction), and the original Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen proposal.55. S. Chaturvedi, P. D. Drummond, Phys. Rev. A 55, 912 (1997). https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevA.55.912 However, SED is not completely equivalent to QED on a mathematical or physical level. The SED Schrödinger equation is incomplete, because there is a companion equation that has no counterpart in ordinary quantum mechanics and restricts initial conditions.33. G. H. Goedecke, Found. Phys. 13, 1101 (1983); https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00728139 G. H. Goedecke, Found. Phys. 13, 1195 (1983). https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00727993 Furthermore, the predictions of QED and SED are different with regard to high-order correlations in nonlinear optics.I agree fully with Grujić and Simonović that the classical atom is alive and well. Models of the atom based on SED are sufficiently accurate for many technological and most pedagogical applications. Even if the classical atom isn’t the most fundamental description of the physical world, it is still an important one.REFERENCESSection:ChooseTop of pageREFERENCES <<CITING ARTICLES1. T. H. Boyer, Phys. Rev. 182, 1374 (1969). https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRev.182.1374, Google ScholarCrossref, ISI2. M. Ibison, B. Haisch, Phys. Rev. A 54, 2737 (1996). https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevA.54.2737, Google ScholarCrossref, ISI3. G. H. Goedecke, Found. Phys. 13, 1101 (1983); https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00728139 , Google ScholarCrossref, ISIG. H. Goedecke, Found. Phys. 13, 1195 (1983). https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00727993, , Google ScholarCrossref, ISI4. A. F. Kracklauer, Found. Phys. Lett. 12, 441 (1999). https://doi.org/10.1023/A:1021629310707, Google ScholarCrossref, ISI5. S. Chaturvedi, P. D. Drummond, Phys. Rev. A 55, 912 (1997). https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevA.55.912, Google ScholarCrossref, ISI© 2013 American Institute of Physics.