Challenges
Datasets
Workspaces
Papers
Discussions
Leaderboard
Log inSign up
Challenges
Datasets
Workspaces
Papers
Discussions
Leaderboard
Blog
Job Board
Q3AS

© 2026 Aqora Quantum S.A.S.

TermsPrivacyLegal Notice

arXiv:0810.0983 · AIP conference proceedings

Von Neumann-Luders Projection, and its Applicability to EPR Experiments

Willem M. de Muynck, Luigi Accardi, Guillaume Adenier, Christopher A. Fuchs, Gregg S. Jaeger, Andrei Yu. Khrennikov, Jan-Åke Larsson, Stig Stenholm

Published Jan 1, 2009• 1 citation
arXivHTMLPDF

Abstract

Notwithstanding it is well known that von Neumann's projection postulate is inapplicable to most realistic measurement procedures, it keeps haunting the foundations of quantum mechanics. In particular its applicability to EPR experiments is often assumed. In the present contribution this problem is considered from the point of view of a quantum mechanical theory of measurement, allowing a treatment of projection in EPR experiments as a special case of conditional preparation. The conditions are spelled out under which the postulate may be applicable.

DOI
10.1063/1.3109966

Related papers

The role of von Neumann and Lüders postulates in the EPR-Bohm-Bell considerations: Did EPR make a mistake?

Andrei Yu. Khrennikov

We show that the projection postulate plays a crucial role in the discussion on the so called "quantum nonlocality", in particular in the EPR-argument. We stress that the original von Neumann projection postulate was crucially modified by extending it to observables with degenerate spectra (the Lüders postulate) and we show that this modification is highly questionable from a physical point of view, and it is the real source of "quantum nonlocality". The use of the original von Neumann postulate eliminates this problem: instead of "action at the distance"-nonlocality, we obtain a classical measurement nonlocality. It seems that EPR did mistake in their 1935-paper: if one uses correctly von Neumann projection postulate, no ``elements of reality'' can be assigned to entangled systems. Our analysis of the EPR and projection postulate makes clearer Bohr's considerations in his reply to Einstein.

arXiv:0801.0419•Jan 2, 2008•4 citations

The role of von Neumann and Lüders postulates in the Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen considerations: Comparing measurements with degenerate and nondegenerate spectra

Andrei Yu. Khrennikov

We show that the projection postulate plays a crucial role in the discussion on the so-called quantum nonlocality, in particular, in the Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen argument. We stress that the original von Neumann projection postulate was crucially modified by extending it to observables with degenerate spectra (the Lüders postulate) and we show that this modification is highly questionable from a physical point of view and is the real source of quantum nonlocality. The use of the original von Neumann postulate eliminates this problem: instead of an action at a distance nonlocality we obtain a classical measurement nonlocality, which is related to the synchronization of two measurements (on the two parts of a composite system).

Journal of Mathematical Physics•May 1, 2008•16 citations

VON NEUMANN AND LUDERS POSTULATES AND QUANTUM INFORMATION THEORY

Andrei Yu. Khrennikov

This note is devoted to some foundational aspects of quantum mechanics (QM) related to quantum information (QI), especially quantum teleportation and "one way quantum computing." We emphasize the role of the projection postulate (determining post-measurement states) in QI and the difference between its Lüders and von Neumann versions. As is well-known, these postulates differ in the case of observables with degenerate spectra. Such observables are important in operations with entangled states: any measurement on one subsystem is represented by an observable with degenerate spectrum in the Hilbert space of a composite system. Some QI schemes (e.g. quantum teleportation and "one way quantum computing") are based on the use of Lüders postulate. The formal application of von Neumann postulate can block these QI schemes. In this note, we present a list of natural conditions under which von Neumann's description of measurements via refinement implies Lüders projection postulate.

arXiv:0905.4398•International Journal of Quantum Information•Oct 1, 2009•11 citations

Whose Projection Postulate?

Anthony Sudbery

The projection postulate is a description of the effect on a quantum system, assumed to be in a pure state, of a measurement of an observable with a discrete spectrum, in nonrelativistic quantum mechanics. It is often called "von Neumann's projection postulate" or "the Lüders rule". This paper is an examination of the versions of this postulate due to Dirac, von Neumann and Lüders. It is shown that Dirac, in 1930, proposed what is now generally known as the projection postulate. Von Neumann, in 1932, gave a different theory which only applies in special and rather unusual cases. Lüders, in 1951, rejected this theory and presented one which is the same as Dirac's. Treatments of observables with continuous spectra by both Dirac and von Neumann are criticised, and the possibility of a generalised version of the projection postulate for this case is considered. The paper concludes with a discussion of the status of the projection postulate (in its various forms) as a separate postulate (independent of the other postulates of quantum mechanics) and as a separate form of time development (in addition to the time-dependent Schrödinger equation).

arXiv:2402.15280•Feb 23, 2024•0 citations

EPR "PARADOX", PROJECTION POSTULATE, TIME SYNCHRONIZATION "NONLOCALITY"

Andrei Yu. Khrennikov

We show that the projection postulate plays a crucial role in the discussion on the so called "quantum nonlocality," in particular in the EPR-argument. We stress that the original von Neumann projection postulate was crucially modified by extending it to observables with degenerate spectra (the Lüders postulate) and we show that this modification is highly questionable from a physical point of view, and it is the real source of "quantum nonlocality." The use of the original von Neumann postulate eliminates this problem: instead of "action at the distance"-nonlocality, we obtain a classical measurement nonlocality. The latter is related to the synchronization of two measurements (on the two parts of a composite system). It seems that EPR did mistake in their 1935-paper: if one uses correctly von Neumann projection postulate, no "elements of reality" can be assigned to entangled systems. Our analysis of the EPR and projection postulate makes clearer Bohr's considerations in his reply to Einstein.

International Journal of Quantum Information•Jan 1, 2009•11 citations

On the problem of completeness of QM: von Neumann against Einstein, Podolsky, and

Andrei Yu. Khrennikov

We performed a comparative analysis of the arguments of Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen – EPR, 1935: [1] (against the completeness of QM) and the theoretical formalism of QM (due to von Neumann, 1932: [2]). We found that the EPR considerations do not match at all with the von Neumann’s theory. Thus EPR did not criticize the real theoretical model of QM. The root of EPR’s paradoxical conclusion on incompleteness of QM is the misuse of von Neumann’s projection postulate. EPR applied this postulate to observables with degenerate spectra (which is totally forbidden by the axiomatics of QM).

•Apr 12, 2008•3 citations
Notwithstanding it is well known that von Neumann's projection postulate is inapplicable to most realistic measurement procedures, it keeps haunting the foundations of quantum mechanics. In particular its applicability to EPR experiments is often assumed. In the present contribution this problem is considered from the point of view of a quantum mechanical theory of measurement, allowing a treatment of projection in EPR experiments as a special case of conditional preparation. The conditions are spelled out under which the postulate may be applicable.
We show that the projection postulate plays a crucial role in the discussion on the so called "quantum nonlocality", in particular in the EPR-argument. We stress that the original von Neumann projection postulate was crucially modified by extending it to observables with degenerate spectra (the Lüders postulate) and we show that this modification is highly questionable from a physical point of view, and it is the real source of "quantum nonlocality". The use of the original von Neumann postulate eliminates this problem: instead of "action at the distance"-nonlocality, we obtain a classical measurement nonlocality. It seems that EPR did mistake in their 1935-paper: if one uses correctly von Neumann projection postulate, no ``elements of reality'' can be assigned to entangled systems. Our analysis of the EPR and projection postulate makes clearer Bohr's considerations in his reply to Einstein.
We show that the projection postulate plays a crucial role in the discussion on the so-called quantum nonlocality, in particular, in the Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen argument. We stress that the original von Neumann projection postulate was crucially modified by extending it to observables with degenerate spectra (the Lüders postulate) and we show that this modification is highly questionable from a physical point of view and is the real source of quantum nonlocality. The use of the original von Neumann postulate eliminates this problem: instead of an action at a distance nonlocality we obtain a classical measurement nonlocality, which is related to the synchronization of two measurements (on the two parts of a composite system).
This note is devoted to some foundational aspects of quantum mechanics (QM) related to quantum information (QI), especially quantum teleportation and "one way quantum computing." We emphasize the role of the projection postulate (determining post-measurement states) in QI and the difference between its Lüders and von Neumann versions. As is well-known, these postulates differ in the case of observables with degenerate spectra. Such observables are important in operations with entangled states: any measurement on one subsystem is represented by an observable with degenerate spectrum in the Hilbert space of a composite system. Some QI schemes (e.g. quantum teleportation and "one way quantum computing") are based on the use of Lüders postulate. The formal application of von Neumann postulate can block these QI schemes. In this note, we present a list of natural conditions under which von Neumann's description of measurements via refinement implies Lüders projection postulate.
The projection postulate is a description of the effect on a quantum system, assumed to be in a pure state, of a measurement of an observable with a discrete spectrum, in nonrelativistic quantum mechanics. It is often called "von Neumann's projection postulate" or "the Lüders rule". This paper is an examination of the versions of this postulate due to Dirac, von Neumann and Lüders. It is shown that Dirac, in 1930, proposed what is now generally known as the projection postulate. Von Neumann, in 1932, gave a different theory which only applies in special and rather unusual cases. Lüders, in 1951, rejected this theory and presented one which is the same as Dirac's. Treatments of observables with continuous spectra by both Dirac and von Neumann are criticised, and the possibility of a generalised version of the projection postulate for this case is considered. The paper concludes with a discussion of the status of the projection postulate (in its various forms) as a separate postulate (independent of the other postulates of quantum mechanics) and as a separate form of time development (in addition to the time-dependent Schrödinger equation).
We show that the projection postulate plays a crucial role in the discussion on the so called "quantum nonlocality," in particular in the EPR-argument. We stress that the original von Neumann projection postulate was crucially modified by extending it to observables with degenerate spectra (the Lüders postulate) and we show that this modification is highly questionable from a physical point of view, and it is the real source of "quantum nonlocality." The use of the original von Neumann postulate eliminates this problem: instead of "action at the distance"-nonlocality, we obtain a classical measurement nonlocality. The latter is related to the synchronization of two measurements (on the two parts of a composite system). It seems that EPR did mistake in their 1935-paper: if one uses correctly von Neumann projection postulate, no "elements of reality" can be assigned to entangled systems. Our analysis of the EPR and projection postulate makes clearer Bohr's considerations in his reply to Einstein.
We performed a comparative analysis of the arguments of Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen – EPR, 1935: [1] (against the completeness of QM) and the theoretical formalism of QM (due to von Neumann, 1932: [2]). We found that the EPR considerations do not match at all with the von Neumann’s theory. Thus EPR did not criticize the real theoretical model of QM. The root of EPR’s paradoxical conclusion on incompleteness of QM is the misuse of von Neumann’s projection postulate. EPR applied this postulate to observables with degenerate spectra (which is totally forbidden by the axiomatics of QM).